Tim/GA Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Did any other MD hear from a shooter about this yet? "Ending the Classifier Limit One major administrative change for 2014 is the elimination of the 12 per year limit on USPSA classifier score submissions. The development of the new activity credit system means there is no longer a need for this restriction and clubs may now submit as many classifiers as they like. This also means the restriction of one classifier per match without a special classifier is also removed. We hope this gives clubs more flexibility in their match design and helps clubs get new shooters classified faster." It is in the Report to the Membership and I don't understand. The rulebook (the brand new, 2 week old one) still shows 1 classifier in a Level 1 match, other than a Special Classifier match. Correct me if I am wrong, but the current software will not even allow us to upload more than 1 classifier stage in a regular Level 1 match. I need to answer some shooters who are trying to get classified before upcoming matches and other local clubs have been rained out the last 2 months making it hard for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This change will be concurrent to automation of the entire classification system. That project is well underway, but you know how software is... Ken N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thanks Ken, so I take it that means that as of now the 1 classifier a match is not in effect BUT we don't have a way of actually doing more than one for the time being? I am also wondering how we will be charged for the 2nd one. Generally we have to charge a bit more for the Special Classifier matches to make up for the extra fees- I wonder if we will we be charged extra for the 2nd one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 According to Kim, the changes are effective now: ... 1) All these changes are effective immediately, including the end of the classifier limits. ... Thanks again guys! Kim http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190081&p=2103330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 According to Kim, the changes are effective now: ... 1) All these changes are effective immediately, including the end of the classifier limits. ... Thanks again guys! Kim http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190081&p=2103330 That is true, and exactly the issue. The new ones are in place immediately without the mechanism being in place to implement them. In Practiscore you can have more than one classifier in your match, but when done in or uploaded to EzWinscore it will only allow you to upload to USPSA one for a regular Level 1 match without changing it over to a Special match. We also don't have a fee amount for more than 1 in a match- right now $1.50 per shooter for 1, $5 per shooter for a Special. What is it going to cost us for 2 in a regular match? I don't mind the change at all, more flexibility and gives me a chance to meet the needs of our shooters. Whether it being 2 classifiers/3 regular from time to time or combining 2 classifiers in one bay have 4 regular stages. I just don't like having to explain to shooter that what they want is actually allowed but I cannot set it up for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_P Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I know it is a hack workaround, but what if you score your match, running 2 classifiers, but setup one of the classifier stages in ezwin as a regular stage? Submit that match as your official match results. Then submit another new match with just the 2nd classifier, marked as a classifier. Not sure if this works or would be allowed, but it may be something to try. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I just wrote to Kim about this, saying they needed to push a ezws update as soon as possible. I have NO IDEA whether their current back office classification update system can handle this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 I had emailed earlier today as well. Did a test match in Practiscore and it would take 2 classifiers but when I uploaded to EzWinscore it gave me the error message Bill posted in the other thread. Not just the software though, like I had said the fees have to be worked out. Steve, if I did as you suggested I would basically end up paying for 2 matches with a classifier. It would also not be kosher as far as activity points and I am pretty sure there would have to be more than 1 stage in the second match to even be classified a match. All in all, the new rule is in place but we cannot implement it until things are updated/changed is what I am telling our shooters. Bill, I have to think the entire way classifiers are handled will be changing a the office with the change in time frames etc. I guess it will most likely be handled in as that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) It also doesn't work in practiscore 1.6: Edited February 14, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 That is ios, right? That makes sense since that version is designed to upload directly to USPSA from what I have seen. I am using the Android version so it is not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yeah, ios. They haven't thought about adding it to android yet. Well.... okay, they've thought about it, there's a feature request item for it on mantis, but it's not in the code yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) </minorrant> Remember this is free guys, done by volunteers... sometimes the expectations frustrate us. Activity reporting is being worked on for Android. This may hurt feelings, but I didn't think it unreasonable to work the kinks out on iOS, then implement it quickly on Android based on what we learned. We have to do things efficiently to get the most out of the time we can spend on this. For now, just find an iOS device to synch and post for a bit, I hear they are pretty common. </endminorrant> No iOS? Find somebody with iOS. Email them your Match Export, they email you back the activity report. Done. It may never be on Android, once we know what we are doing survives acid test of many clubs, we will likely just put it in the cloud, and available for download when you post results. Kim will be posting on this question (multiple activities) on the USPSA member page, and somewhere here in Enos forums. Ken N. Edited February 15, 2014 by Ken N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 When you make big changes there is bound to be issues. This one will get worked out quickly. Ken - on this Valentine's Day I want to say I heart Practiscore! Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Roger just sent this: Level 1 Matches with More Than One Classifier The recent USPSA report to the membership stated that the policy concerning how many classifiers a club could run at a match had been removed. While both USPSA and Nifty Bytes are working to modify EzWinScore and PractiScore to handle this change, until a new version is released in the next week or two, the workaround in both programs is to select Level I Special when setting up a new match. Currently, the maximum number of stages is limited to six, and the same fee schedule for Special Classifiers will be followed. USPSA has established an ambitous agenda for this year, so we ask the membership to be patient with us as we build the necessary infrastructure to achieve these goals. There are many aspects to be dealt with, and we may not be able to think of all of them at once. Please be assured that USPSA is working hard to prepare for the future, and that we need your input as we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Ken: We all appreciate what you guys are doing for our community. I just hope it won't take another 6+ months before we see an iOS update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yeah, ios. They haven't thought about adding it to android yet. Well.... okay, they've thought about it, there's a feature request item for it on mantis, but it's not in the code yet. I am not even sure why you even complaining about it... You have stated in your every other post related to PS that you are doing your match squadding in ezws because it is more superior, so you must have ezws around regardless and can just post your activity report from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 USPSA's stated direction is to move to one scoring system, which apparently is to be practiscore. I'm not complaining. I use iOS as the master for a great many reasons, and so does Ken; it's his recommended match configuration. However, many people are going to want to use android for reasons of cost of apple hardware or whatnot, so the feature needs to be there. Ken also says he's working up a new squadding interface for iOS and has offered a test flight to me. But it is still my stated position that the iOS and android versions of practiscore should, obviously, offer the same features and those features should, as much as programmatically possible, operate the same way. Ezwinscore IS going to go away someday, though I think it'll take longer than they hope, so practiscore (both versions) need to be brought up to that level of operational service. Android is closer than iOS in some respects, iOS is closer than android in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 But it is still my stated position that the iOS and android versions of practiscore should, obviously, offer the same features and those features should, as much as programmatically possible, operate the same way. As Ken said, we'll get there eventually. But the question is what *you* are willing to do to make it happen or even help it to happen. Because, you know, pounding on it is not really helpful, but rather opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Read my previous post again. Ken offered for me to help test flight the iOS version and I responded in the affirmative. You at one time sent me a beta version of 1.2.0 (I think it was) but I haven't seen any subsequent betas since. Edited February 16, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I actually go have a life for a 1/2 a day and you guys start scrapping... Bill... if you aren't testflighted yet you will be tomorrow. The day we wanted to do that was the day Apple decided it's time to cleanse all our global test devices and start anew. On betas... On Android I think we are moving to a bleeding edge posted to website, please try, and a stable one in the 3 current locations. We want to test more but need help, as we have a lot of devel to do. Apple will have to be more structured cause we have to test flight and only get 100 devices COMPANY wide, including non PS activities. Ken N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I actually go have a life for a 1/2 a day and you guys start scrapping...I thought I was quite civil. First time I've heard from him since last November. Edited February 17, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Read my previous post again. Ken offered for me to help test flight the iOS version and I responded in the affirmative. You at one time sent me a beta version of 1.2.0 (I think it was) but I haven't seen any subsequent betas since. Let me just say that I found that I can stay more productive if I ignore your posts on the forum and focus on bug reports submitted to the issue tracker at https://practiscore.com/bugs/ Anyways, you are more than welcome to help with the testing of the new releases. Though probably there are some disconnect in regards to expectations. The way I see it, it is staged like that: * Early access releases. When making large changes we contact people expressed interest to help with testing. The catch is to get a quick turnaround on any issues (i.e. waiting response from testers for a week is too long) * Released versions. We do our smoke testing for those. Then anyone can them, test on their own matches and report back any issues as soon as they can (2 or 3 weeks later won't make much difference here). The catch for this one is to get enough of early adopters, who will have to do some smoke testing before using it at bigger matches We have used first approach for some releases and second for other releases, but fundamentally they are not much different. Either way we'll have to rely on community to help us cover possible permutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 "Smoke testing"? http://developer.android.com/tools/testing/testing_android.html Isn't there a way that a testing package as described here could be developed and used to, as much as possible, thoroughly shake down a release candidate of practiscore by subjecting it to a known set of canned inputs (dummy stages, dummy competitors, dummy scores, scripted actions intended for exercise the user interface controls and underlying code) and, when finished, compare the output match results (both from the app itself and as exported to ezws and/or practiscore.com) and if any differences show up (or unexpected error messages pop), those can be researched and fixed BEFORE releasing to the general user community? Wouldn't that be a desirable value-add to give users an extra measure of quality assurance that a new release is in fact good, instead of asking them to just try it and hope it doesn't burn down their matches? (Hence I presume the term "smoke testing".) If that's possible, wouldn't that be a better way of doing business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In theory and in an ideal world it is possible. But in practice, such task is more complex and magnitude more time consuming than writing the app itself. Different devices and screen sizes; different match and scoring types; variations and customizations within match type; variations how app is used in different places (some of the stuff we haven't even heard about); networking; communication with external systems, web sites, etc; compatibility with older versions and ios platform; and so on and so forth. All that adds up to a lot of permutations. I've tried it when I started working on the app, but quickly had to give up... Besides, they don't tell you about it, but these UI tests break on any significant changes of the code and you practically have to rewrite them over and over again. Usually I do assessment of the changed areas before release and focus most of my own testing on the affected pieces. But because we have no idea how PS is used elsewhere, I can't always predict where it may break. For my own matches I always do a dry run few days before the match and make sure all features working as expected. PS: Google is your friend - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_testing_(software) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ...smoke testing is preliminary testing to reveal simple failures severe enough to reject a prospective software release. Thank you for that. No really, thank you very much. The key word here is "preliminary", definition for which is "denoting an action or event preceding or done in preparation for something fuller or more important". Also ref. "prospective", definition for which is "likely to happen at a future date; concerned with or applying to the future: a meeting to discuss prospective changes in government legislation." Yes, google is indeed our friend. For it confirms to me that you have this process completely backwards. Smoke testing as defined is supposed to be done BEFORE you issue a candidate release for general use in the field, NOT after! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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