Magwell paint dot Legality In SSP

[Kyle7735]

I have just started shooting SSP with my Glock 34. After watching a youtube video of Frank Proctor he stated that he places a dab of fingernail polish on the right hand side of the magwell (As a right handed shooter) which gives his eyes something to focus onto while reloading. Similar to the way a fiber optic front sight works. I cannot find anything in the rulebook mentioning a painted dot being illegal for SSP.

I appreciate any thoughts and or opinions on this.

[Tarkeg]

Perfectly legal. Go for it.

[Steve Koski]

SSP Excluded Mods

8.2.1.4.11. Removing material from the magazine well opening.

You can't remove material, but you can add some paint if you like. Call it a custom finish.

[Adam Sills]

As others have said, no prohibitions in IDPA. Just don't shoot USPSA production with the same gun. It's illegal there.

[Kyle7735]

Well i was planning on it being my SSP and Production gun so i guess no dot for me. It has helped though in building the muscle memory for it though.

[lee blackman]

Wait, I don't see where its illegal in USPSA Production? Its not listed as a prohibited modification. It does not change the dimensions on or profile of the magazine well.

The closest thing I could find is if it was ruled to give a competitive advantage under 21.2A, but I think it would be a pretty weak argument. I mean it would be a disadvantage for me to have it, because I might actually look at my mag well, rather than use muscle memory, which would cost me time.

21.2A "Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no com- petitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cos- metic only, no competitive advantage).
Special Notes/Clarifications:
• Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. "

[Steve Koski]

I'm not a USPSA rules guy, but I have heard from several reliable people that painting a line in the mag well is not allowed in production.

[lee blackman]

I'm an NROI RO, but only with a year of experience. Thats kinda why I ask, not to argue the point, but to actually find the rule so I can learn it.

[Thomas H]

Wait, I don't see where its illegal in USPSA Production? Its not listed as a prohibited modification. It does not change the dimensions on or profile of the magazine well.

The closest thing I could find is if it was ruled to give a competitive advantage under 21.2A, but I think it would be a pretty weak argument. I mean it would be a disadvantage for me to have it, because I might actually look at my mag well, rather than use muscle memory, which would cost me time.

21.2A "Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no com- petitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cos- metic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. "

It is illegal in Production, as was pointed out when this question was asked by the OP in the USPSA Rules sub-forum. (Competitive advantage.)

I note also that "I mean it would be a disadvantage for me to have it, because I might actually look at my mag well, rather than use muscle memory, which would cost me time" is something that many people would disagree with, as pretty much all of the top shooters in USPSA look at their magwell when reloading, and for good reason.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Thomas H

[sperman]

The USPSA discussion is here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190161#entry2103118

[lee blackman]

Wait, I don't see where its illegal in USPSA Production? Its not listed as a prohibited modification. It does not change the dimensions on or profile of the magazine well.

The closest thing I could find is if it was ruled to give a competitive advantage under 21.2A, but I think it would be a pretty weak argument. I mean it would be a disadvantage for me to have it, because I might actually look at my mag well, rather than use muscle memory, which would cost me time.

21.2A "Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no com- petitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cos- metic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. "

It is illegal in Production, as was pointed out when this question was asked by the OP in the USPSA Rules sub-forum. (Competitive advantage.)

I note also that "I mean it would be a disadvantage for me to have it, because I might actually look at my mag well, rather than use muscle memory, which would cost me time" is something that many people would disagree with, as pretty much all of the top shooters in USPSA look at their magwell when reloading, and for good reason.

It took me over a year to teach myself to stop looking at the magwell when I reload, but your the master class shooter. So I have to ask, why? Again, just trying to learn, not trying to be disrespectful by any means.

[Steve Koski]

Lee - Looking is faster and less error prone.

[lee blackman]

Yup found the forum topic on it:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168999&hl=reload#entry1886879

Thanks again guys.

[Thomas H]

Yup found the forum topic on it:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168999&hl=reload#entry1886879

Thanks again guys.

And it isn't like we are staring at the magwell for minutes at a time. A quick look in the middle of the reload for alignment, and that's it.

[DreGarciaTAT2]

I just talked to someone else about this recently... The guys over at Weapon Works LLC... They are starting to offer cerakoted internal mag walls in bright colors to aid in reloading... Seems counter productive... I feel like the reload is one of the things I practice the most. If you can make it automatic you can be focusing on an obstacle, the next target... Anything that's 'next' instead of lulling... Some stages/matches are own by fractions of a second.

[rowdyb]

black grips, black frame, mag opening in shadow often, black magazines. to get an accurate and more importantly QUICK visual reference i find a white mark in the mag well valuable.

a reason why mag wells work is because it allows you to be using your vision less in the reload and you need the magwells help to make the reload. get out your timer and see. no mag well, you better be using your eyes. if muscle memory was so awesome then a magwell wouldn't be a benefit.

i find people jack up their reloads most often by not grabbing the mag off their belt in the best way, using a poor method to release the slide and finally not having the visual skill to shoot quickly and accurately after mounting the gun again.

for me and many others, the paint mark is a great help. now you may not see top shooters make a real pronounced head movement down to the magazine, and others may not use the tactical "work space" style reload but you can have a pretty sure bet their vision is involved in a reload.

i can for a fact do 1.5 second slide lock reloads, shot to shot, down zeros on a 7yrd target. this would be impossible without using my vision to verify the magwell and the paint dot helps that process.

[DreGarciaTAT2]

black grips, black frame, mag opening in shadow often, black magazines. to get an accurate and more importantly QUICK visual reference i find a white mark in the mag well valuable.

a reason why mag wells work is because it allows you to be using your vision less in the reload and you need the magwells help to make the reload. get out your timer and see. no mag well, you better be using your eyes. if muscle memory was so awesome then a magwell wouldn't be a benefit.

i find people jack up their reloads most often by not grabbing the mag off their belt in the best way, using a poor method to release the slide and finally not having the visual skill to shoot quickly and accurately after mounting the gun again.

for me and many others, the paint mark is a great help. now you may not see top shooters make a real pronounced head movement down to the magazine, and others may not use the tactical "work space" style reload but you can have a pretty sure bet their vision is involved in a reload.

i can for a fact do 1.5 second slide lock reloads, shot to shot, down zeros on a 7yrd target. this would be impossible without using my vision to verify the magwell and the paint dot helps that process.

Hmmm... Now I'm gonna pay attention. I feel like I don't even glance at all. Maybe I don't notice. Video time!