Double Alpha PDR Pro Holster Review (CZ Shadow)

[sperman]

First, let me say I'm a big fan of the Double Alpha products. I run double alpha belts, and double alpha mag holders in limited and production. If I start shooting single stack again, I will sell my safarilands and replace them with the double alpha SS mag pouches.

Needless to say, I was excited to get a new production legal holster that had some adjustment to it from DAA.

Right off the bat I had to wait two weeks to get my holster (It was hung up in customs for over a week.) That isn't DAA's fault, but until US distributors start stocking the product it may be something you should prepare for. (Other's have reported that they received their holster in less than a week.)

Out of the box this holster shows the quality and ruggedness I would expect from DAA. My biggest complaint with my old bladetech holster was that it could slide around on the belt. This holster uses a system similar to their mag pouches, so once the holster is attached to the belt, it isn't going anywhere.

My first complaint with the holster is the retention. I'll say that I'm not too worried about my pistol falling out. I only shoot USPSA handgun matches, so I don't have the concerns that a 3-gun shooter might. I will typically leave the adjustment screws loose. But if I wanted more retention, tightening the screw doesn't accomplish what I would hope. Some holsters have a little bump in the trigger guard area, so as you tighten down on the adjustment screw, it grabs the trigger guard, and the gun sort of pops in and out of the holster. On the PDR, it just squeezes the holster closed at the trigger guard, forming a bit of a wedge. So instead of really grabbing the pistol, it just wants to shove it up out of the holster. You can push the gun down into the holster, and it grabs the gun, but as you run around (as an RO following a shooter) the gun works its way lose, and doesn't have any more retention than it did when the screw was loose.

When it comes to adjustment, this holster has it in spades. For purely vertical adjustment there is 1/2" of adjustment where the hanger meets the belt, and then another ~3" of adjustment where the holster meets the hanger.

There is a ball and socket joint at the bottom of the hanger that allows the holster to be angled in all directions. The problem is that this mechanism eats up a lot of space. So much so, that with the hanger square to the belt, the holster is not legal for use in USPSA. (All divisions are required to have the grip within 2" of the inner belt.) My rig measures ~2 1/4", even more when I am wearing the belt.

In order to get the grip within 2", i have to use up all of the vertical angle adjustment. This picture, with the rig off of my body shows about 3/16" under the 2" rule. When it is mounted on my belt, it puts it right at 2". (I know the rules say the measurement can be taken with the belt on or the belt off, but I only compete with the belt on, so that's where I want it to be legal.)

This puts the gun in a less than optimal position. The gun is canted inward, with the butt of the gun closer to my body than the muzzle.

With the belt on, and gravity doing its thing, the gun actually hangs pretty close to vertical, but I would prefer to have the muzzle closer to my leg and the butt of the gun canted away from me.

I'm not sure where that leaves me with this holster. I think I can make some adjustments to it to get it where I want, but I'm a little reluctant to start modifying a $100 holster.

If I perform any modifications, I'll update this thread. As of right now, I'm not sure if this holster will stay on my rig or if I'm going back to the bladetech.

[ogiebb]

Thank you for the review that exactly the info i was waiting for.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ogiebb

[norbs007]

Can the old PDR be updated with the new attachment? Saul?

[ak_tech]

hmm. Thanks for the review. I was considering one of these and now may hold off and see that others say. Keep us posted

Edited February 12, 2014 by ak_tech

[SpankYa]

Very informative. Thanks for taking one for the team and being the first one to try it out.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

My holster took a couple days longer than sperman's to show up. Below are my initial thoughts.

My PDR pro arrived today. I'm very happy with the hanger setup. I was able to get this holster positioned like the race master I use in limited. It doesn't take much pressure to hold the ball joint. The holster looks to be very well constructed.

My only complaint is with the fit of the gun in the holster. The gun wouldn't slide into the holster the way the holster was out of the box. I adjusted both bolts until they were not touching the kydex. The gun would slide in at that point, but it was still very tight. Tight enough it would push the slide out of battery. Most of the contact was on the slide. There was a gap on both sides of the trigger guard. I pushed the gun all the way into the holster and tightened the adjusters down snug. Then I carefully applied heat with a heat gun at the slide/site track area of the holster. The gun loosened up but the fit still didn't seem right. I repeated tightning and heating a couple more times. I let the holster cool good and loosened the adjuster bolts. Now the tension on the gun is good. It doesn't snap into place like most kydex holsters. The tension appears to be from contact on the sides of the frame and slide. After adjusting the hanger and a few dry firing draws there are some wear points showing on the slide. I may end up wet sanding the inside of the holster to try to help this. The gun in the attached pictures had only been shot in one action steel match with the supplied xdm holster. There were no marks on the slide previously.

Overall I would be very happy with the holster if the gun had fit better. I like the hanger and mount setup better than any kydex holster I've owned. I have it modified enough now that it will work fine. Now my only concern is finish wear on the gun.

Edited February 13, 2014 by CJcycles

[See_Archie_Shoot]

I didn't think to measure the offset.

[sperman]

I would be interested to see how it measures with another gun.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

It looks like I'm ok the way I have it adjusted.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

I would be interested to see how it measures with another gun.

.

I put one spacer on top and one spacer below my belt. Then my holster is adjusted so it sits higher above the ball joint. Looking at your picture it looks like that might help.

[doublealpha]

Sperman - what gun model are you trying to use with this holster?

What PDR-PRO holster model is this? I am guessing an CZ SP01?

[sperman]

It looks like I'm ok the way I have it adjusted.

Based on Appendix E2, the measurement is taken to the inside of the inner belt, so I would say you are out by just over 1/8".

[sperman]

The gun is a CZ SP-01 Shadow, and the holster is for a CZ SP-01.

I did find that I was wrong on the retention. If I back the screw all of the way off, the holster snaps in place like I would expect.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

It looks like I'm ok the way I have it adjusted.

Based on Appendix E2, the measurement is taken to the inside of the inner belt, so I would say you are out by just over 1/8".

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking it was to the outside of the inner belt

[See_Archie_Shoot]

I moved the belt spacer so that both are below the belt. Then I moved the ball joint lower on the t bracket (this raises the holster). I was able to get it adjusted to a position that I like and maintain the distance to the belt.

The holster feels really good now. It's just disappointing that it required that much work to get it to fit. Like Sperman I'm a fan of DAA. I have two DAA belts, STI Racemaster, Racemaster and Racer Magpouches, CED range bag, CED timer, and more. I would recommend all of those without any hesitation. I've been running BladeTech and Comptac kydex holsters. I decided to set up a production rig and I wanted to try a DAA kydex holster. I have mixed feelings about this holster now. I'm planning on keeping it, but I won't be replacing the Comptac belt holster I run in single stack anytime soon.

[rjstubbl]

Do you think the PDR-Pro could be adjusted to be legal for single stack?

[DoubleL]

This holster grabbed my attention, and it looks very well made. But am I crazy thinking that most of the adjustment range of motion puts you way way way out of PD rules?

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why I would need the ability to swing the gun so far out, well beyond the limits of the rules.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

Do you think the PDR-Pro could be adjusted to be legal for single stack?

I think you would be very limited in the adjustment where it would be legal. I have my holster at the top of the t bracket adjustment in the pictures. I could raise it another 1/2" by moving the spacers where it mounts to the belt. That adjustment plus adjusting the cant I think would get the front strap above the belt. I have the XDM 5.25 holster. The PDR pro for a 1911 might sit the gun higher.

[Jaxshooter]

I purchased the same holster for my 1911 and could not get it to adjust close enough to meet the 2 " requirement either. I also had a problem with the height of the gun not meeting the SS requirements. I ended up returning the holster.

[See_Archie_Shoot]

This holster grabbed my attention, and it looks very well made. But am I crazy thinking that most of the adjustment range of motion puts you way way way out of PD rules?

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why I would need the ability to swing the gun so far out, well beyond the limits of the rules.

Good point. I would rather have a better range of motion within the production and single stack rules. This would make and excellent holster for someone wanting to shoot limited or 3 gun with a kydex holster. I'm very happy with the quality of the holster except for the fit of the XDM. I think I'm going to be happy with it overall. If the kydex part fit my gun well I would be very happy. Im thinking about building a press and reshaping the kydex. Edited February 13, 2014 by CJcycles

[fellas]

I am looking for more reviews for this holster as well to get one for my stock 2 , I have not decided yetbetween the PDR PRO and Ghost THE ONE holster what you think guys this rigs will be for production

thanks

[BeerBaron]

they are both totally different holsters. once is a kydex duty style comp holster and the other is a race style holster with muzzle platform.

what matches are you shooting? in IPSC or USPSA I don't believe there is a restriction on the type of holster (as long as it covers the trigger area of course) you can use in production, but for 3gun or IDPA that may not be the case.

I'm not sure why you are limiting yourself to two totally different hoslters? if you're after a race holster there are others apart from the ghost that could do the job well (super ghost, mannybragg magnetic, DAA racemaster, DAA racer, H&S CW5, CR speed to name just a few). and if you want a duty style holster then there are just as many kydex options out there too.

not trying to be rude, just trying to figure out what brought you down to just those 2 options?

[JonSnow]

in IPSC or USPSA I don't believe there is a restriction on the type of holster (as long as it covers the trigger area of course) you can use in production, but for 3gun or IDPA that may not be the case.

Actually, the rule for production (and SS) is "Suitable for everyday use. "Race gun" type holster prohibited."

I purchased the same holster for my 1911 and could not get it to adjust close enough to meet the 2 " requirement either. I also had a problem with the height of the gun not meeting the SS requirements.

I was able to get mine legal for SS with a TRP, but just barely. Let me see if I can get some pictures tonight.

Edited February 18, 2014 by JonSnow

[doublealpha]

HI All

Thanks for your comments and feedback.

I realize some are having issues adjusting the PDR-PRO holsters, and I would like to address these comments here:

When we tested, we concluded that the 1911 model would be legal for USPSA SS rules, with the ball in the lowest position on the rail, but it seems it is only marginally so. Only if the gun is tilted at a particular angle, which is, of course, not good. It seems there is some variance caused by the type of gun used and how it sits in the holster body which affects this height issue as well.

We have since come up with a very simply solution to this matter – which allows you to extend the range of the rail almost another full inch, enough to make the holster comfortably legal for SS USPSA.

Simply by using the lower screw which holds the rail in place as a stopping screw as well (by using a longer screw and some washers) you can lower the ball further, – and thus raise the holster. We have tested and found this to be a good solution. (see picture)
As soon as the problem and the solution became apparent we modified all the 1911 holsters, shipping them out like this. For those who are facing this issue, and did not get the modified screw/washer setup on their PDR-PRO – simply email me at daa@doublealpha.biz with your address and request these parts. We will gladly send them out immediately free of charge.

As for the limited range and distance from the belt. In the 1911, and some other holster models, you will note that there is a large bend in the Kydex at the top of the holster body (on the rail side). This frees up space on the gun’s side for wider safeties, but it also creates the problem of angling the rail – tilting it towards the body at the top – which means the gun is tilted away when the rail is vertical. This is why the range of the ball is “wasted” simply to get the rail to the vertical and bring the gun close enough. Thus some users have found they had to use all the range of the ball joint to get the gun legal.

One possible fix to increase the range available is to see if that much bend in the Kydex of the holster is really necessary for your gun. For many guns a slighter bend will do. If your gun seems to have space between its left side and the top of the holster body – you can easily bend the Kydex straighter, which will serve to bring the gun much closer when assembled. Kydex can very easily be manipulated when heated a little. This can be done with a heat gun, or even a hair dryer. Another option is to place a couple of washers beneath the rail on the lower connection screw This serves again to make the rail more parallel to the gun, and will then bring the grip of the gun closer to the body, and allow more of the adjustability the ball offers to be used.

thanks,

Saul

[razorfish]

I'm having issues with a CZ-75 SP-01 Shadow also.

What is the recommended solution for the CZ?

I'm not too sure how I would feel about raising the gun further upward on hip but I'm currently canting inward toward my hip to even get close to the 2" I need to get legal. (The opposite of what would be ideal).

(FYI, I purchased my holster from the Ben Stoeger Pro Shop).

Any help would be greatly appreciated