Do i need a shock-buffer with a 14# spring (Single Stack .45 1911)

[Givo08]

As the title suggests, if I use a 14# spring with ~170 PF loads, do I need to use a shock buff?

[Steve RA]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

[juan]

you dont need them

i run one my son does not

i can feel the difference. its whatever you like

[Pat Miles]

You'll stop using a shock buff after one comes apart and makes the gun quit running.

Find the correct weight spring (14# is good) and just use that.

Pat

[RangerTrace]

You shouldn't need one with a 14# spring. I run a 12# spring with an alumabuff in front of a wilson shok buff to short stroke the gun a bit. My guns run 100% with them, they've never failed, and I love the way it feels.

[mgardner]

I run them in the 1911's that have room for them. My Para when shot to slide lock with the buffer in it won't allow me to slingshot the slide. As for falling apart, I haven't seen that happen except in one that the recoil spring had been put in backwards. Just change them out occasionally.

[Jaxshooter]

I don't use them in my SS. I am running a 12.5 lb spring shooting 3.8 gr Clays with a 230 gr MG bullet. They are 169 PF.

[ParaGunner]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

Couldn't of said it better myself. +1

[Givo08]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

[ak_tech]

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

IMHO It seems more like a matter or "feel" than function. I personally don't care for them as I had one fall apart in the middle of a match and I couldn't get it to run without taking the slide off. After that I started to run without one and discovered that recoil felt better and less "bouncy" to me. I run a 12.5 lb spring 175PF.

[RangerTrace]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I'll say this, a factory built Springfield TRP comes with like a 20# spring......or at least that is what it feels like

[bountyhunter]

Shok buffs are expendables like tires, belts and hoses. They have a life span. I use them in every auto I own and have never had a failure. I even cut them out of 1911 buffs to go in guns where no buffs are available. The point is to reduce frame battering.

Another option is to use the dual rate spring recoil assemblies that prevent frame contact, but those don't let you swap recoil spring weights.

Edited February 8, 2014 by bountyhunter

[TonyK]

I spend a lot of time training with a former SWAT cop who carried a 1911 on duty and still does. He fired thousands of full power law enforcement rounds through his guns and never found evidence of battering. But he also maintained his guns to the extreme, can't blame him his life depended on reliability. And shock buffs just may degrade the reliability of your gun.

Pretty much unnecessary in a 5" with the proper recoil spring. Change it often as well. My favorite gunsmith recommends only a thousand rounds on a carry gun. Besides a recoil spring is less than $4....

In a commander (or even in a govt) they may interfere with the function of the slide. They shorten the available space for the slide to cycle and in a short slide they just may prevent it from picking up a round from the magazine. They can also make clearing jams less than reliable (ie manual racking of the slide) due to less clearance with the slide pulled all the way back.

Just my two cents...

Edited February 8, 2014 by TonyK

[ParaGunner]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I've used a 14lbs recoil spring in my P14 45acp at major pf for a few shooting seasons with no sign of frame damage. I liked the feel of the 14lbs compared to the standard 16lbs recoil spring.

[Bam Bam]

I tried shock buffers in my 1911 and all it caused was malfunctions and failure to lock back because of the tight tolerance. I would just recommend just using proper spring weight.

bgc

[fwrun]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I'll say this, a factory built Springfield TRP comes with like a 20# spring......or at least that is what it feels like

The issue w/ the TRP isn't the recoil spring, it's the mainspring that's so heavy. The Integral locking system (ILS) uses a crazy heavy spring, making it feel very heavy to rack the slide.

[bountyhunter]

You'll stop using a shock buff after one comes apart and makes the gun quit running.

They are expendables which means they have to be looked at and replaced when you see a problem, like belts and hoses in your car. They do drastically reduce frame battering but also change cycling since they absorb energy at impact. I ran buffs in every auto I own and have never had a problem. YMMV

[bountyhunter]

They shorten the available space for the slide to cycle and in a short slide they just may prevent it from picking up a round from the magazine.

Very true. If you don't have adequate range of travel, it could cause a problem.

[JMike]

You'll stop using a shock buff after one comes apart and makes the gun quit running.

They are expendables which means they have to be looked at and replaced when you see a problem, like belts and hoses in your car. They do drastically reduce frame battering but also change cycling since they absorb energy at impact. I ran buffs in every auto I own and have never had a problem. YMMV

Personally, I agree with this line of thinking.

I don't know if there is empirical evidence that shock buffs are necessary or even desirable. It sounds like a damn good argument if you invented it, want to retire early and own the patent. LOL!

Having said that, I have used shock buffs on more than a few 1911s "back in the day" and it was always something that I changed out after a few thousand rounds. I never had a failure of the shock buff like anything other folks are talking about or a frame failure.

Edited August 17, 2014 by JMike

[ZombieHunter]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I'm not sure where and why this light spring craze hit, but you need to tune the gun to YOUR loads, not because someone told you to run a 14# spring or a shock buff. IMO, the shock buffs only serve one good purpose and that is to help tune my springs by putting a new one in each time I run a spring weight to see how hard it's being hit after a few rounds. After that, useless IMO. They generally cause more problems than they solve (i.e., tearing apart, short stroking the gun, which in turns causes other issues).

If I were you, I'd buy a range of spring weights, take them all to the range, and shoot a couple of mags through each weight. Watch your sights, groupings (I like to do a bill drill to see where my groups end up with each weight) and how it feels to you. You should see and feel a big difference from the lightest to the heaviest weights - and somewhere in there is what will work for your gun and load. Keep in mind that if you change your load's PF, you may also need to change your spring.

I had EVERYONE telling me to run a 12-14lb spring in my STI Trojan. That was a major mistake based on my experience. Long story short, I had MAJOR muzzle flip, sight acquisition was slow, and groups were almost non-existent except in slow fire. I finally settled on a 16 lb spring, which made a world of difference. No more muzzle flip. In addition, I had been having feeding issues beyond 8 rounds in my Tripp mags; that issue disappeared as well with a 16 lb spring. Now I realize you're shooting a 45, but the same principle applies.

Good luck!

[mike l m]

16 lb recoil and 23 lb mainspring for a 5" 45 ACP is what you should run if you are shooting major and do n ot want any problems. I have been shooting 45 ACP in competion and for carry. No issues. I do not use a buff at all. No frame batter.

Thanks,

Mike

[RangerTrace]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I'm not sure where and why this light spring craze hit, but you need to tune the gun to YOUR loads, not because someone told you to run a 14# spring or a shock buff. IMO, the shock buffs only serve one good purpose and that is to help tune my springs by putting a new one in each time I run a spring weight to see how hard it's being hit after a few rounds. After that, useless IMO. They generally cause more problems than they solve (i.e., tearing apart, short stroking the gun, which in turns causes other issues).

If I were you, I'd buy a range of spring weights, take them all to the range, and shoot a couple of mags through each weight. Watch your sights, groupings (I like to do a bill drill to see where my groups end up with each weight) and how it feels to you. You should see and feel a big difference from the lightest to the heaviest weights - and somewhere in there is what will work for your gun and load. Keep in mind that if you change your load's PF, you may also need to change your spring.

I had EVERYONE telling me to run a 12-14lb spring in my STI Trojan. That was a major mistake based on my experience. Long story short, I had MAJOR muzzle flip, sight acquisition was slow, and groups were almost non-existent except in slow fire. I finally settled on a 16 lb spring, which made a world of difference. No more muzzle flip. In addition, I had been having feeding issues beyond 8 rounds in my Tripp mags; that issue disappeared as well with a 16 lb spring. Now I realize you're shooting a 45, but the same principle applies.

Good luck!

I'm guessing you were shooting 40 major and I'm not sure how you could have "major muzzle flip" with a lighter spring. Not to mention, with the same load, you felt like you had "no more muzzle flip". Of course we all that isn't possible, so it felt like less muzzle flip to you. I certainly can't explain your other malfunctions, but as for me, my experience with 40 major has been exactly the opposite of your's. The lighter the recoil spring, the less muzzle flip. 10 and 12 pound springs have been the sweet spot for my Infintys and I do run a two buff system to short stroke the pistol.

[ZombieHunter]

Try it both ways and see what you - and the gun - like. I use them, others call them the invention of the Devil so the views on them are split.

I'm not as concerned about reducing the felt recoil as much as preventing any frame or barrel link damage with a lighter weight spring.

So is the consensus that there is nothing to worry about as far as damage using a 14# spring with major PF loads?

I'm not sure where and why this light spring craze hit, but you need to tune the gun to YOUR loads, not because someone told you to run a 14# spring or a shock buff. IMO, the shock buffs only serve one good purpose and that is to help tune my springs by putting a new one in each time I run a spring weight to see how hard it's being hit after a few rounds. After that, useless IMO. They generally cause more problems than they solve (i.e., tearing apart, short stroking the gun, which in turns causes other issues).

If I were you, I'd buy a range of spring weights, take them all to the range, and shoot a couple of mags through each weight. Watch your sights, groupings (I like to do a bill drill to see where my groups end up with each weight) and how it feels to you. You should see and feel a big difference from the lightest to the heaviest weights - and somewhere in there is what will work for your gun and load. Keep in mind that if you change your load's PF, you may also need to change your spring.

I had EVERYONE telling me to run a 12-14lb spring in my STI Trojan. That was a major mistake based on my experience. Long story short, I had MAJOR muzzle flip, sight acquisition was slow, and groups were almost non-existent except in slow fire. I finally settled on a 16 lb spring, which made a world of difference. No more muzzle flip. In addition, I had been having feeding issues beyond 8 rounds in my Tripp mags; that issue disappeared as well with a 16 lb spring. Now I realize you're shooting a 45, but the same principle applies.

Good luck!

I'm guessing you were shooting 40 major and I'm not sure how you could have "major muzzle flip" with a lighter spring. Not to mention, with the same load, you felt like you had "no more muzzle flip". Of course we all that isn't possible, so it felt like less muzzle flip to you. I certainly can't explain your other malfunctions, but as for me, my experience with 40 major has been exactly the opposite of your's. The lighter the recoil spring, the less muzzle flip. 10 and 12 pound springs have been the sweet spot for my Infintys and I do run a two buff system to short stroke the pistol.

Wow. You are the exact reason I rarely contribute a suggestion - obviously didn't read my post at all - especially the second paragraph. Also, why are you hijacking this thread to go on your rampant "I know all" smart a** response with zero basic presentation of facts or logic? I have no interest in your opinion and didn't ask for it. Try concentrating on the OP's question instead.

And since you make it a point to tag anything and everything with "Team Infinity" - you should know that when the slide slams into the frame from a spring TOO LIGHT (based on your load's PF), it hits the frame and cause your muzzle to rise. It WILL be different for every person, based on load, how that person holds the pistol (meaning wrist strength, how arms are bent, etc.) as this ALL affects recoil and energy in the slide. Hence, my statements in the second paragraph - find the spring weight that works for YOU and YOUR PISTOL!

Edited August 20, 2014 by ZombieHunter

[RangerTrace]

Easy there tough guy. It wasn't meant as a personal attack. Take a breath and carry on....,

Edited to add, I totally agree with your second paragraph. It's unclear what that has to do with Team Infinity though.

Edited August 20, 2014 by rangertrace

[Rob01]

I agree with the guys above in getting some springs and trying it out. I have an STI Eagle and Trojan in .40 and tried from 12 to 15 pound springs for my major loads. In my STI Eagle .40 I run a 12 pound spring with my 173 PF loads and it works great. I tried that in my .40 Trojan but it was a little light and I use a 13 pound in that with the same load as it keeps shots together. You can see the difference in quick double taps as to how close the shots are together on target. When I shoot a minor 130-135 PF load through them I drop them down 2 pounds to 10 and 11 pounds, respectively.

On the original topic, I tried both plastic and aluminum buffs and they seems to make the pistols less reliable so I stopped using them. Try them in yours and see. If you shoot me a PM with an address I could drop one of each in an envelope for you to try.