CZ P-01 with CZC tactical rear and FO front sight upgrade

[IronicTwitch]

Just replaced some aftermarket tritium sights on my P-01 that were shooting about 2 inches low at 7-8 yards.

I purchased and had a gunsmith install these (not sure about the weird links to CZC right now):

1) https://02b665f.netsolstores.com/CZ-Tactical-Rear-Sight.aspx (part #10100, Tactical Rear Sight Standard Dovetail, states on the 75 it will require the 6.5mm front sight, perhaps this assumes the full size 75 and not the compact?)

2) https://02b665f.netsolstores.com/CZ-Fiber-Optic-Front-Sight-6.5mm-0.100-with-1.0mm-FibreRod.aspx (part #10409, FO front sight 6.5mm-0.100 with 1.0mm fiber rod)

After installing the new sights I'm still getting POI 2 inches low from POA at 7-8 yards. I'm guessing I got the wrong front sight? Any insight here? I assuming I should purchase a new front sight at the height to 6.0mm or even 5.5mm height. I prefer the POI just above the POA for the game we play.

I searched the forum for a post I recall reading a few months ago on that concept, but I wasn't able to find it. Thanks in advance for humoring me...

[jabbermurph]

That is really low at that distance. I have a dawson that's 5.5mm, and one from CZC that's 6.0mm that I won't be using. Let me know what you figure out, and if you need one, it's yours

[Feralshooter]

I think I remember the post you referred to but it won't be relevant to a compact due to the different sight radius.

If you crunch some numbers it should be easy enough. For example if the sight radius is 15cm, then at 15m (sight radius times 100) the POI would be 100 times greater than any change in sight height. So a 1mm lower sight would raise POI by 10cm at 15m in this example. It seems like you need to raise POI by about 75mm at half this range, so would need 150mm at 15m. That would equate to a 1.5mm lower front sight than you have. Bear in mind that these numbers are based on a 150mm sight radius, which is a number I pulled out of a hat so don't use these figures, but if you use the basic formula with the correct dimensions you should get pretty close.

I would test again at 100 times the actual radius measurement and figure out how much higher I wanted the POI to be, and work from there.

Hope this helps (and makes sense!)

[mgardner]

It's a trig formula and is (sight radius) times (change of impact) divided by (distance to the target). All numbers need to be in the same measurement (inches or mm).

I'd try to see where it's shooting at 20 yards and go from there myself. I'm getting a 2.5mm difference at 8 yards (5 inch sight radius and 2 inches point of impact change) which seems severe.

[IronicTwitch]

Excellent. That's the formula I was looking for. I'll make a range trip for some precision measurements of distance to target and see if it's even possible to correct the sights. I got the P-01 used so maybe it's something more fundamentally wrong with the setup. I'll let you know what I find!

[mgardner]

Some people actually prefer a sight picture where the bullet lands in the center of the front sight instead of at 6:00 on top of the front sight. Sounds like that's how your gun is setup.

[tortuga]

How would you describe your sight picture? For me, I like the POI to be right about where the fiber optic "dot" is. Are you sitting the target on top, or behind, the front sight?

[mgardner]

I was trained to sight any iron sighted gun in to put the point of impact on top of the front sight, old school. The logic being that you should be able to see the target and where the bullet will hit. Some train to put the fiberoptic or dot centermass and cover the area you wish to hit. The M-9's were made to be shot that way and I shoot them about 3 to 4 inches low using a 6:00 hold.

[IronicTwitch]

Yes, the POI is behind the red FO front sight. I've heard that referred to as the combat sight setup, especially with the FO front sight (put the red dot on the center mass). I prefer the POI just above the front blade so I don't need to drop my sight picture after the shot to confirm the impact point.

Once I get the math sorted it, I'll see if I can lower the front sight enough to get me where I want to. Otherwise, expect to see a listing in the Classifieds for a nice P-01 with everything but a hammer job!

[Feralshooter]

I also like POI to be just above the front sight post, to the point that a plate at 20m is sitting entirely above the post.

Don't forget that you can get an adjustable rear (or a higher fixed rear) and achieve the same effect.

[alma]

Dawson gives you a formula for calculating how much more or less front sight you need to get your correct point of impact. https://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT

Great sights too

[twowheels]

_{why don't you slap on a 5.5 and see how you like it? It's an easy install. you might find you need to file a bit off the front to get it right where you want it. We all see our sights a little differently. There is nothing like actual testing to determine if you like a sight setup.}

_{BTW, CZC recommends a different sight set for the compact vs the full size pieces.}

[IronicTwitch]

I measured the previously installed front sight at 5.45mm. I filed it down to 5.40mm and roll pinned it in. Took some 124gr FMJ's to the range and POI is spot on POA with the tactical rear sight that CZC sells. It was just a mis-order of a 6.5mm front sight from CZC on my part, but thought it'd be worth sharing since I overlooked the full-size vs compact sight differences.

[ntphd]

I may be completely off-base here, and given the technical information in the op (way beyond me), I probably am. Still, no one in this thread has asked about ammunition and what type of bullet you are using.

I raise the point only because my Shadow shot very accurately with wwb. When I switched over to my reloads, using 147 gr Montana Golds, I was consistently hitting two inches to the left. I ran a thread and someone explained that the ogive (sp?) of the 147 is so different from a 115 that it is not unusual to have this kind of result.

Anyway, good luck with this. I'll be following along because I have considered picking up a P-01 and I'd like to hear more about them.

[Feralshooter]

I may be completely off-base here, and given the technical information in the op (way beyond me), I probably am. Still, no one in this thread has asked about ammunition and what type of bullet you are using.

That is because it doesn't really matter what ammo or projectile you use, as long as you don't change it. By the time you are fiddling with fixed sight heights you have usually settled on a load or ammo type and will generally stick with that or ensure any other loads you use have the same POI.

Changing loads with fixed sights is an exercise in frustration. Find a load and stick to it.

Hope this helps.

[ntphd]

I may be completely off-base here, and given the technical information in the op (way beyond me), I probably am. Still, no one in this thread has asked about ammunition and what type of bullet you are using.

That is because it doesn't really matter what ammo or projectile you use, as long as you don't change it. By the time you are fiddling with fixed sight heights you have usually settled on a load or ammo type and will generally stick with that or ensure any other loads you use have the same POI.

Changing loads with fixed sights is an exercise in frustration. Find a load and stick to it.

Hope this helps.

Okay, perhaps I misunderstood the op. Sounded like his POI was two inches low with the old sights, and still two inches low with the new sights. Doesn't seem like load consistency has anything to do with it. I guess I should phrase the question this way: have you tried other bullet shapes and weights, and do you get the same results?

[IronicTwitch]

Catching up on the forum, I used 124gr fmj rn over 4.0gr each time. Definitely use 5.5mm (or less if you file it down) front sight with the tactical rear sight. I'm not steady enough in gloves and the cold (it was 10 degrees and windy last time out) to do tests for accuracy at 25 yards...but I got some good groups at my 8-10 yards.