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cops secret training


3djedi

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I went to my range today to try out my new glock 19 only to find the place over run with cops.apparently they were doing their monthly training. My indoor range has observation windows but they were all taped over. Either they are doing some secret ninja training or they are just embarrassed to allow the public to see how bad of shooters they are......lol I'm just kidding. I'm sure there some police who are crack pistol operators....

Hopefully I can try the new glock tomorrow.

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I went to my range today to try out my new glock 19 only to find the place over run with cops.apparently they were doing their monthly training. My indoor range has observation windows but they were all taped over. Either they are doing some secret ninja training or they are just embarrassed to allow the public to see how bad of shooters they are......lol I'm just kidding. I'm sure there some police who are crack pistol operators....

Hopefully I can try the new glock tomorrow.

Yeah, had the same thing at my range before except they didn't restrict the area.

Won't repeat what I saw but it scared me bad enough that I left.

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I have known some crack shots who were policemen and women. Others not so much. To be fair a lot of police officers spend more time learning how to handle paper work than they do learning to shoot. Why not? Doing paper work is how they spend far more of their time.

Edited by Bart Solo
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A lot of LEO's compete to stay sharp. Others qual. however often they need to and are not as good as they could be. A lot of LEO's can't afford ammo to practice and or compete so they don't. Others just don't care!

Richard

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About a quarter of the officers I have seen and/or trained are decent shots. About half only shoot when they are required to, and the other quarter has to be retrained every time they get to the range. There was one Detective Captain in the early 80's that couldn't hit the berm, but when confronted by two armed robbers took care of business with a 2" Smith and Wesson. Who 'da thunk it?

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There is some confusion about police and guns among the shooting fraternity. The Range Officer at our shooting club is a career cop, a crack shot, and responsible for firearms training for his department. He told me that there is no necessary correspondence between someone who wants to be a police officer and someone who likes guns or even wants to shoot. He said that the average cop looks upon his sidearm and ammo as a couple of pounds of dead weight on the belt. On training days, he has caught officers giving away their free ammo to others. And, we must admit, it's possible for a cop to go through an entire career and never shoot a gun for "real," and 99% of all police work has nothing to do with guns or their use. So- they're just playing the odds......and don't we all, in one way or another?

As shooters, and even people (such as myself) who just LIKE guns, we tend to project onto these people, and make the connection by saying "Wow, if my life depended on it, I'd sure become a better shot." Really? Statistics show that the average driver sucks, our lives depend on our driving skills, we're a WHOLE lot more likely to be maimed or killed in a car wreck than even a cop is to be shot in a gunfight, but when was the last time any adult you know attempted to improve -or even question- their driving skills?

All this being said, yeah, the qualification course for the department that shoots at our range is a joke. Any club member I know can shoot and pass it while asleep. Hand most of those officers the U.S. Customs drill, or the Air Marshal drill, and all they'd get is a Did Not Complete.

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I'll add some to the above post. Cops are just people, and a gun is a tool of the trade. It is not much different than a computer for an office worker. Some love their computers and can do amazing things with them. Some customize them and hack them and can build them from scratch. Others hate them, barely know how to turn them on, can't remember a password, and are constantly calling tech support to do routine stuff. That said, some cops are great shooters, others are down right dangerous. Unfortunately too many seem to subscribe to the spray and prey approach. My indoor range recently opened up a new section, and before it opened to the public they did a bunch of police training and qualifications. You would not believe the number of hits into the floor and ceiling - it was down right scary.

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I had a great uncle who was a career beat cop in a large dangerous city back during the roaring 20s, 30s, 40s and into the 50s. After he retired he told me that he had been in a lot of scraps as a cop, but was proudest of the fact that he never fired his service revolver in anger. His memories were of the people, especially kids, he helped when they needed help. Our view of what a policeman does or doesn't do is clouded by all the cop shows where every week our cleareyed blond hero shoots it out with a platoon of bad guys. In his old age my great uncle told me that Barney Miller was the most authentic cop show he ever saw on television. It was a sitcom.

Edited by Bart Solo
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I've shot with a number of cops from different agencies(Local PD, Dep. Sheriffs, DPS etc) and different squads (swat, HRT, etc). Some are excellent both shooting static, on the move and with moving tgts. Others are as described above (paper pushers, weapon as dead weight etc). The ones who are really good shooters most all prefer a tactical long weapon over a handgun but know, at any given time, it could come down to that handgun.

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I'm a good shot, as I've been raised to be a shooter from duck hunting on up. My fellow LEOs here in WI are NOT the ones you want to run into when you are the perp. with a weapon.

The LEO bashing gets a little thin, the story telling from long ago, but here's the angle nobody seems to talk about in these forums as they really don't know: firearms training/budget is extremely agency leadership dependent.

If you want your local agencies to be shooting monthly call your locals: Sheriff, Mayor, Town/county Board, and let THEM know what you WANT to see as a tax payer. Make sense?

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I'm a good shot, as I've been raised to be a shooter from duck hunting on up. My fellow LEOs here in WI are NOT the ones you want to run into when you are the perp. with a weapon.

The LEO bashing gets a little thin, the story telling from long ago, but here's the angle nobody seems to talk about in these forums as they really don't know: firearms training/budget is extremely agency leadership dependent.

If you want your local agencies to be shooting monthly call your locals: Sheriff, Mayor, Town/county Board, and let THEM know what you WANT to see as a tax payer. Make sense?

I am sorry for telling a story from long ago, but I certainly wasn't bashing law enforcement officers. Long ago stories are what an old guy tells. My great uncle was a great cop. He was justly proud of his service, he just worked his ass off to defuse situations without using his gun. He was lucky that he didn't have to use a gun during decades on the street. My great uncle served his community.

Edited by Bart Solo
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The LEO bashing gets a little thin, the story telling from long ago, but here's the angle nobody seems to talk about in these forums as they really don't know: firearms training/budget is extremely agency leadership dependent.

If you want your local agencies to be shooting monthly call your locals: Sheriff, Mayor, Town/county Board, and let THEM know what you WANT to see as a tax payer. Make sense?

When my wife was CO of a navy reserve unit, they had to buy their own ammo to qualify each year for the M16 and M9. But they still did qualify. It was a medical unit, so they would never need firearms.

personally, I find arguments hollow that "lack of funds" is the reason that adequate firearms training and testing is no longer being implemented. Lack of firearms skills translates directly into grave physical danger for bystanders as well as "criminals".

We had a famous incident here where a stationary suspect on the ground was fatally shot because the officer could not tell the difference between his Taser and his Glock. As far as telling the leaders what we want.... we do, they don't listen. Only big $$$ lawsuits ever get any corective action.

I am not bashing officers, I am bashing poorly designed training/testing which allows incompetent firearms skills.

Edited by bountyhunter
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There are a couple of mindsets going on with training.

A lot of cops want to go train and practice with their firearms but the range is open only occasionally.

The other side sees officer involved shootings as high risk, low occurrence incidents and do not channel funding to more training (I know, pay now or pay a lot later).

However, the cops I work with will run towards gun fire when someone needs help even if they are not a crack shot (yes, it's their job).

Fortunately, my head LEO is supportive of the "contests" (practical matches) I have put on. He will allow the use of department ammunition for these events.

As for cops passing "qualifications", it's easy when no one is pointing a gun or shooting back at you. What most people see are "accuracy tests" and not the practical/tactical part of training.

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Also not "bashing" LEO's, but, I'm a framer by trade and I'm damn good with a nailer or hammer. I've spent YEARS perfecting my craft to simply do a better job and make more money. My skills with the TOOLS I use only benefit me, they in no way endanger bystanders....think about it, I know MOST LEO's will never draw their weapon, but WHAT IF???? Why do they even bother carrying them? My nailer has yet to shoot an innocent bystander and I've put millions of nails through it!

On another personal note, I carry concealed daily, I pray I'll NEVER have to use my gun, but you better believe, I practice like I may have to.

Professionals should be just that, professional.

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I am a recently retired LEO from a major police agency here in California. Over my 29 year career, I have been in charge of range duties along with also teaching advanced weapons training and ground fighting. I have a passion for firearms and compete in USPSA events weekly. You would be amazed at the excused why an officer cannot shoot our monthly range days. Some of the best are, "it too hot", it's too cold, too windy, too ______? But the very best one I have got was "I just had my nails done and I can't shoot without ruining the polish". This was from an officer that I watched shooting from the 15 yard line and skipping the rounds off the ground about 7 years from the target. We had management at the time that allowed this officer not to shoot that day.

The advanced firearms training, which also included ground fighting techniques, was strictly voluntary. That was a pleasure because the participants actually wanted to be there and improve there skills. So there are some really good LEO shooter, but for the most part, Not so good.

Edited by 11287
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A friend has started bringing his daughters BF to IDPA with him. He is cop where they live and he said after a few stages he was used to being a big fish in a small pond and we were spanking him good. He is a good shot as long as he isn't hitting No Shoots! Of course him being the new guy we have to break him in with some "gentle" teasing. I told him to blame it on "watching the hands". At least he is seeing the need to shoot more.

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  • 1 month later...

If the Windows are taped over, more likely than not they are doing night time quals.

Generally speaking there are a bunch of day shift and admin whom a department does not want to pay overtime or adjust schedules, so they do things like shoot low light, indoors and avoid having to call extra people in to cover or pay out the overtime.

Budgets are very closely monitored in most agencies and avoiding overtime is very common.

But the secret ninja training sounds cooler...

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