Tattoo Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Hey All, I am searching for a used Open gun for this year. Is my search fu correct in that the only difference between a 38 super gun and 38 sc is tuning the extractor? So, if I buy a 38 Super gun the conversion is as simple as that?? Thanks T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosh79 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 yep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cool. Thanks guys. So what makes a 9 major gun different from a normal 9mm gun? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Hey Thanks.... But I understood that. But it's the same exact gun? Just change springs? I could shoot 9 Major in my STI 9mm Edge?? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug S Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Exact same gun, I didn't even change springs in my opengun. Why would you want to shoot major loads in your Edge? It is a lot of extra power for plinking, shooting major loads. If you just want a hotter load for around the house, then get some +P loads. Also, my 38 super had the different extractor and I shot 38 super, 38 supercomp and 9mm through it. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosh79 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Unless you are planning on turning the edge into an open gun there's no gain or benefit of shooting 9 major from a limited gun 9mm major is only legal in open 9mm major in everything else is minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67camaro Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 FWIW my gun will extract both 38 super and 38SC with no changes to the gun. I have stacked them back and forth in one mag and the gun runs fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Hey Thanks.... But I understood that. But it's the same exact gun? Just change springs? I could shoot 9 Major in my STI 9mm Edge?? T You could--but why would you want to? 9 Major is a very hot load and we load 9s to major PF to compete in Open. I don't know anybody else who would shoot 9 major in any other gun than a gun designed to compete in Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 While tuning an extractor may make 38 supercomp reliable in a 38 super platform, a true 38 supercomp built gun will have a 9mm breechface for added reliability and margin of error. Otherwise, the brass will have more room to move around on the breech face when fired. From using 38 supercomp in both types of platforms, I can say with certainty that a 9mm breech faced gun has much more margin of error when tuning the extractor for 38 supercomp, and thus, when tuned correctly, will be more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Hey Thanks.... But I understood that. But it's the same exact gun? Just change springs? I could shoot 9 Major in my STI 9mm Edge?? T You could--but why would you want to? 9 Major is a very hot load and we load 9s to major PF to compete in Open. I don't know anybody else who would shoot 9 major in any other gun than a gun designed to compete in Open. No...no..... I have no intention of doing that with my Edge. I was just using it as an example to understand. I am looking to buy a used Open gun and I passed on a nice 38 Super gun....or at least that's what I thought. I did not know it would shoot 38sc and everyone is running a 38sc comp. Duh.... Now I know! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 While tuning an extractor may make 38 supercomp reliable in a 38 super platform, a true 38 supercomp built gun will have a 9mm breechface for added reliability and margin of error. Otherwise, the brass will have more room to move around on the breech face when fired. From using 38 supercomp in both types of platforms, I can say with certainty that a 9mm breech faced gun has much more margin of error when tuning the extractor for 38 supercomp, and thus, when tuned correctly, will be more reliable. Ah ha! This makes more sense! I knew there had to be a difference! Then why the heck does STI only make there Open guns in 9mm and 38 Super....not 38sc?!?! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67camaro Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Hey Thanks.... But I understood that. But it's the same exact gun? Just change springs? I could shoot 9 Major in my STI 9mm Edge?? T You could--but why would you want to? 9 Major is a very hot load and we load 9s to major PF to compete in Open. I don't know anybody else who would shoot 9 major in any other gun than a gun designed to compete in Open. No...no..... I have no intention of doing that with my Edge. I was just using it as an example to understand. I am looking to buy a used Open gun and I passed on a nice 38 Super gun....or at least that's what I thought. I did not know it would shoot 38sc and everyone is running a 38sc comp. Duh.... Now I know! T The load.....take a 9mm and load to major power factor, hence 9 major. Only allowed in Open. Hey Thanks.... But I understood that. But it's the same exact gun? Just change springs? I could shoot 9 Major in my STI 9mm Edge?? T You could--but why would you want to? 9 Major is a very hot load and we load 9s to major PF to compete in Open. I don't know anybody else who would shoot 9 major in any other gun than a gun designed to compete in Open. No...no..... I have no intention of doing that with my Edge. I was just using it as an example to understand. I am looking to buy a used Open gun and I passed on a nice 38 Super gun....or at least that's what I thought. I did not know it would shoot 38sc and everyone is running a 38sc comp. Duh.... Now I know! T The only major difference is the rim on the case. But just a change of the extractor is needed. As I previously stated my gun will run both without changing the extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 While tuning an extractor may make 38 supercomp reliable in a 38 super platform, a true 38 supercomp built gun will have a 9mm breechface for added reliability and margin of error. Otherwise, the brass will have more room to move around on the breech face when fired. From using 38 supercomp in both types of platforms, I can say with certainty that a 9mm breech faced gun has much more margin of error when tuning the extractor for 38 supercomp, and thus, when tuned correctly, will be more reliable. You're welcome to your opinion, but I'll disagree with these statements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I knew some would, but it still holds true in my case. As for the question with STI, they no longer make a slide specifically for 9, though they did in the past. Now, AFAIK the only difference on their guns in 38 super and 9 is barrel headspace and magazine follower, also possibly the extractor. I can't say for sure on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well looking in Brownells it seems STI only makes a 38s/9mm slide. Les Baer only makes a 38s and Capian lists a 9mm. So I guess it begs the question as to what the difference is in breech face between say the Les Baer 38s and Caspian 9mm? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I knew some would, but it still holds true in my case. As for the question with STI, they no longer make a slide specifically for 9, though they did in the past. Now, AFAIK the only difference on their guns in 38 super and 9 is barrel headspace and magazine follower, also possibly the extractor. I can't say for sure on that one. They quit making them because many of the 9mm slides were extremely difficult to tune for proper ejection, hence more unreliable than using a 38 super slide! Now they only sell the more reliable 38 Super slides, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Not my fault there are so many amateurs out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 SVI super comp guns will have a 9mm IBF and are pretty reliable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Actually, either 9mm or 38 Super slides are equally reliable. Its how well they're tuned by the gunsmith. But to insist a 9mm slide is more reliable for a supercomp gun just is not true, so I had a little fun the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWBooth Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The 9mm head diameter is .394. The 38 super head diameter is .406. the 38 super comp head diameter is .374. That is why Dillon puts a 380 ACP shellplate in the kit with 38super dies,for38 super comp when you buy a press with dies. so, it all is a little loose, but still works. The 38 super comp head diameter is the same as 380 ACP. ---JCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) But to insist a 9mm slide is more reliable for a supercomp gun just is not true, so I had a little fun the poster. Actually, that has to be true if you think about it. What you're saying is like saying an oversized barrel chamber will give you the same accuracy as a barrel chamber with a tight fit. What I originally said, was a 9mm slide has more margin of error for extractor setup than a 38 super slide with 38 supercomp brass, this also has to be true. Ejection margin of error may, however, be a different issue because of how the lower breech face hoods interact with the brass as it is trying to be popped out of the slide, which is kind of what you said. The more consistent the interactions of the gun with the ammunition (eg, the less room the brass has to move around on the breech face) the more reliable a properly setup gun will be. However, in this case there is a finer line in weighing ejection vs extraction with regard to the breech face. I think the absolute most reliable setup for 38 supercomp would be a 9mm breech face with beveled hoods around the brass to allow for better ejection. However, no manufacturer has thus far made such a setup. As the poster above mentioned, perhaps a 380 acp breechface would be the way to go, but that is even farther from possible than a 9 breech face with beveled hoods. Edited February 7, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 But to insist a 9mm slide is more reliable for a supercomp gun just is not true, so I had a little fun the poster. Actually, that has to be true if you think about it. What you're saying is like saying an oversized barrel chamber will give you the same accuracy as a barrel chamber with a tight fit. Not the same at all! What I originally said, was a 9mm slide has more margin of error for extractor setup than a 38 super slide with 38 supercomp brass, this also has to be true. Wrong! Actually, the Super slide provides more "margin of error" for adjustment of the extractor to get proper tension. Ejection margin of error may, however, be a different issue because of how the lower breech face hoods interact with the brass as it is trying to be popped out of the slide, which is kind of what you said. The more consistent the interactions of the gun with the ammunition (This is correct) (eg, the less room the brass has to move around on the breech face Wrong again! The brass isn't moving around on the breech face. That's what extractor tension is for) the more reliable a properly setup gun will be. However, in this case there is a finer line in weighing ejection vs extraction with regard to the breech face. I think the absolute most reliable setup for 38 supercomp (how much better than 100% can you get?) would be a 9mm breech face with beveled hoods around the brass to allow for better ejection. However, no manufacturer has thus far made such a setup. As the poster above mentioned, perhaps a 380 acp breechface would be the way to go, but that is even farther from possible than a 9 breech face with beveled hoods. You still don't get it, but believe what you want. I'm sure all the major custom open gun builders who use STI 38 Super slides will probably switch to Caspian 9mm slides in to future so their guns will be more reliable based on the opinion you've provided, along with all the current owners of open guns with 38 Super slides on guns from these builders that are having all the reliability problems. Bottom line, a properly built 38 Supercomp gun built with a 38 Super slide will be equally reliabe to a 38 Supercomp gun built with a 9mm slide. Since you believe there is so much reliability to be gained over 38 Super slides, you need to start manufacturing slides that incorporate your "thinking" . All of the shooters with the less reliable 38 Super slides will beat a path to your door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Tattoo- Sorry for the thread drift, I'll quit now. The answer to your question is that all you need to change is to have an extractor tuned for Supercomp. A 38 Super slide will be reliable with 38 Supercomp once the extractor is tuned. The majority of open shooters shooting 38 Supercomp are probably doing so with a 38 Super slide. There is no need/advantage to have a 9mm slide to have "a true supercomp gun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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