cpa5oh Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Anybody know if the 2" rule is from the inside of the inner belt to the frame of the gun or from the closest part of the gun (for example, if you've got an extended safety, does the measurement go from the safety to the inside of the inner belt?) Trying to setup a Limited rig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Effective February 1, 2014 5.2.5 Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor’s handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor’s belt, the measurement shall be taken in the following manner: — Perpendicular to the belt at the point of attachment to the belt — from the inner most surface of the belt equipment (against the pants/body) to the closest point of the grip of the handgun and/or any reloading device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Effective February 1, 2014 5.2.5 Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor’s handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor’s belt, the measurement shall be taken in the following manner: — Perpendicular to the belt at the point of attachment to the belt — from the inner most surface of the belt equipment (against the pants/body) to the closest point of the grip of the handgun and/or any reloading device. Yep, the new rule book specifies "to the closest point of the grip" thus we can't get away with measuring to a wide thumb safety anymore. I wonder what percent of current limited rigs meet this measurement? I know many Production shooters including myself have had to modify Bladetech DOH rigs to meet the 2 inch measurement. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Open rigs, too. I'm thinking there are a lot of open shooters measuring from the inside of the belt to the thumb safety, and maybe even the slide racker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Open rigs, too. I'm thinking there are a lot of open shooters measuring from the inside of the belt to the thumb safety, and maybe even the slide racker. Will be interesting to see if this is enforced Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Every major I have shot or worked this was indeed checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Every major I have shot or worked this was indeed checked Good: my Production rig fits the rule, I'll just make sure to put my new Limited rig together with this in mind as well. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammer1911 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pictures pictures pictures. It is confusing for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pictures pictures pictures. It is confusing for most. Download the new rule book and look at Appendix E2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pictures pictures pictures. It is confusing for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon12224 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I would wager that the vast majority of limited and open rigs will probably fail this new test. Most competition belts are nearly 3/4 inch or more. That only leaves 1 1/4 inches between the outer belt and the grip. Since an overlay is a little over 2 inches wide, it provides an easy reference for ROs to check the equipment. If you can fit that overlay between the grip and the inner belt, you should call the RM and have him/her take a look. People need to make sure they are in compliance before traveling to a major match. I would like to see Match Directors begin to comply with 6.2.3 which states: Prior to the commencement of a match, each competitor must declare one Division for score. Match Officials should check holsters and other competitor equipment for compliance with the declared Division prior to the competitor making an attempt at any of the courses of fire. It would appear to me that if the competitor has actually shot a stage with the equipment, they will shoot the match for no score since all divisions have to meet the 2 inch requirement 6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpa5oh Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thank you for the clarification. This rules out me running anything dropped - my strong hand thumb needs to be above the belt hanger, otherwise I can't get a firing grip on the gun quickly because 1 and 1/4" just isn't enough room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 --- snip --- I would like to see Match Directors begin to comply with 6.2.3 which states: Prior to the commencement of a match, each competitor must declare one Division for score. Match Officials should check holsters and other competitor equipment for compliance with the declared Division prior to the competitor making an attempt at any of the courses of fire. --- snip --- The rule says that the check is optional, not mandatory. But that aside, it is abso-friggin-lutely the responsibility of the shooter to make sure that their stuff is properly set up prior to the start of the match. If they have any concerns, they can check with the MD prior to the start. Traveling to a major and spending a lot of money to shoot for "fun" may not be all that much fun. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Is a mag well considered part of the grip for this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon12224 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I absolutely agree that complying with the rules is always on the shooter. It just seems odd that a procedure that is clearly outlined in the rulebook and is "Optional but highly recommended" is pretty much never done, even at the Nationals. Some CROs handle it on each stage, but not in a uniform fashion. Maybe we could avoid some of the "Svetlana" moments if we just took 3 minutes at the beginning of each day and checked equipment as the rulebook suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Every major I have shot or worked this was indeed checked I can't say that I've ever seen this checked. Maybe the CRO was doing it quietly, but it wasn't obvious to me. I know I saw some holsters at the production nationals that I am pretty sure put the handgun outside of the 2" rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 To be honest my experience only covers two RM's and they regularly pulled people aside for this. And typically before any shooting so it could get corrected. Never done nationals but I am not surprised as it would mostly seem to fall to the CRO's with the numbers of shooters there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is a rediculous rule for Open and also Limited in my opinion. What is the reasoning for this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is a rediculous rule for Open and also Limited in my opinion. What is the reasoning for this rule? I agree. Open should be open, including holster placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 at my CRO class during 2013 Limited nats there was a discussion about the old and the new requirement. It was brought up that an overlay is 2.1 inches x 4 inches and could be used as a rough estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is a rediculous rule for Open and also Limited in my opinion. What is the reasoning for this rule? I agree. Open should be open, including holster placement. Why should open be different ? What is the intent of this rule? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'm not liking this rule one bit. I just did some measurements with my revolver holster (blade-tech with drop and offset attachment) and depending on how you measure it may or may not meet the 2" maximum. I currently use an Uncle Mike's belt. I don't see any way it would fit if I were using a thicker belt such as a DAA. In my case if an RO measured and felt I wasn't in compliance of the rule I could remove the drop/offset attachment and then remeasure. I wonder what would happen in a case where your holster would not permit such a modification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I believe it is to comply with the 4th Principle of USPSA shooting. Personally I agree with the intent of the rule, but a uniform measurement policy with all the different rig/gun types is hard to define. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Back in the "day" it was adopted to prevent the "gunslinger" look. USPSA was a very new sport and concerned about its public image. I can't remember if it had this specific measurement in it, and I doubt that it did, but the low slung quick draw type holsters/belt combinations were soon prohibited. Edited January 29, 2014 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I wonder what would happen in a case where your holster would not permit such a modification? You shoot for no score of course. Edited January 29, 2014 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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