P.E. Kelley Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Where are the next yr rules posted? will 3GN HM now be true irons or 1x optic? http://3gunnation.com/regionals/rules_awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 We can wax poetically about only shooting at targets that can be seen, but enough virtual ink has been spilled on this point to float a boat, and changes are not on the horizon. I have resigned myself to just deal with the situation and continue to hit what I can see and engage the rest. Not too many years ago we where concerned that we would loose limited and HM, now limited has seen a resurgence and only HM has been left struggling. I think that limited is going to continue to grow as people try it, many choose to stay in limited, and it does give people the satisfaction of hitting the targets without the benefit of a $2,500 1-? optic. Simple is sometimes more fun. HM is certainly simple, but it is also a lot harder and many people just don't enjoy that much self ass kicking. Hell if I could build my own division it would be iron sights, M-14 or M-1, revolver, and an M2, but none would shoot in it but me so I will just shoot whatever the hell I want in whatever the hell division I feel like. I do this stuff for fun, and with as much money as I spend on this silly pastime I might as well shoot the guns that make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Co-exprs, Local expense to shoot "at" targets I can't see is different from $1500+ to travel to a Major with the same issues. Bit of a chore or a little frustrating don't cut it. I can hit (rather quickly) any target I can get a good visual on. Being able to shoot well goes right out the window when you can't see what you are shooting at. One of the things I've had to come to terms with is that I want, more than anything to be in that Pro line up. Fact is... family, finance limitations and time will never allow me to be as competitive as I know I could be. So I do what many before me have done... get involved with match operations to help promote the sport in positive ways that are within my means. Sounds like there is an opportunity to improve both target presentations and PR. I'll see if I can be a positive influence at least in my neck of the woods. Those of you who have shot abroad... are there any events which could be benchmarked for excellence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I love it... ask for ideas and I get crickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I love it... ask for ideas and I get crickets. I have not shot but a shotgun match abroad so I don't know how its done over there. I do know based on Kurt's reports...THEY PAINT and use paper at distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I have been told that referring to a woman as a "Broad" is sexist and insensitive so I do my best to avoid it. I have not shot overseas, but in a perfect world I would like to see all steel painted and visible, as well as falling. I would also like to see beer gardens at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't know about no beer gardens, but if you stop by the Sierra Squad cabins at He-Man or RM3G you can grab a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I have only shot pistol overseas, so I don't have anything to offer. They did have a "Bistro" at the match in Duesseldorf, no bier at lunch, I don't know about after the match. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Really Mr. Payne? As I have pointed out countless times ( a search function would work for you) The Nordic rifle championships and the European rifle Championships are the gold standard in target presentation. Every steel target falls and they are painted for each shooter. They also shoot paper out to 300M for score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't know about no beer gardens, but if you stop by the Sierra Squad cabins at He-Man or RM3G you can grab a beer. Wynn, will the banner be on the porch so I know where the cold ones are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Really Mr. Payne? As I have pointed out countless times ( a search function would work for you) The Nordic rifle championships and the European rifle Championships are the gold standard in target presentation. Every steel target falls and they are painted for each shooter. They also shoot paper out to 300M for score. LOL, no direspect intended Kurt.I referred back to your other posts and looked up those matches. I haven't spent a ton of time searching yet, but I have been unable to find any examples, descriptions or photos of distance targets at either of those matches. I'm sure they are out there, just haven't found them yet. What size paper targers? What do the steel targets look like? How are they presented? How are they made visible for irons? How are the targets reset and scored? If those matches are going to be the standard by which other matches will be judged then i'd like to better understand those standards. Also, there has been reference to degrading quality in target presentation in recent years. Was there a match state side which had targets between 3 and 600yds which was sort of the benchmark match in years gone by? I'm too new to the sport and need to draw on your experience. As an iron shooter I have a vested interest in the subject and I want to be a part of the solution and potential growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Team High Life does not lack for beverages at matches, I would like to see a good place for everyone to get together and enjoy whatever beverage the participants choose to enjoy once the guns are bagged. I also think that there should be strippers to paste targets, but I seem to be the only one that ever votes for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Beer Gardens at matches? I wouldn't mind having one here, where are y'all getting the seeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) co-exp, the topic is a sore one with kurt and I as we expound those matches and then get told "it can't be done",...........suffice it to say, i'm tired of talking about them and being told that gravity isn't foolproof, and lazy is the way of the future so step up and embrace the future. if you want to grow iron sight division, then you need to lessen the amount of other divisions. Targets do not need to be placed further than 350yds, we are not shooting precision rifle. targets tend to be in the 4moa range,............................. gee I wonder where i've heard that before paper is standard ipsc targets, you can look them up in the ipsc website, there are various types they have lots of support and no shortage of help, offroad vehicles,ATV's, etc to run downrange and reset they don't set targets in areas that can't be gotten to easily and directly, they use bright colors with CONTRASTING backers, they don't hide targets in shadows or behind bushes The RO's plainly show you where the targets are IF you are unable to see them, I do not recall seeing a match except for the old HPSC that tried to utilize all the components to make the match as fair as possible, for ALL competitors trapr Edited January 25, 2014 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 co-exp, the topic is a sore one with kurt and I as we expound those matches and then get told "it can't be done",...........suffice it to say, i'm tired of talking about them and being told that gravity isn't foolproof, and lazy is the way of the future so step up and embrace the future. if you want to grow iron sight division, then you need to lessen the amount of other divisions. Targets do not need to be placed further than 350yds, we are not shooting precision rifle. targets tend to be in the 4moa range,............................. gee I wonder where i've heard that before paper is standard ipsc targets, you can look them up in the ipsc website, there are various types they have lots of support and no shortage of help, offroad vehicles,ATV's, etc to run downrange and reset they don't set targets in areas that can't be gotten to easily and directly, they use bright colors with CONTRASTING backers, they don't hide targets in shadows or behind bushes The RO's plainly show you where the targets are IF you are unable to see them, I do not recall seeing a match except for the old HPSC that tried to utilize all the components to make the match as fair as possible, for ALL competitors trapr Thanks for chiming in "old salt" as you and Kurt KNOW how this has been and can be done. People should search your "how-to" posts on running a match! Great stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanyou Trapr, that is more what I was looking for. Just for the record... I am genuinely interested in this topic. Your input on the subject in the past, inspired me to attempt a no resetting requirement at my shotgun match. Don't crucify my if I don't get it right, but I'm willing to try. We'll see how it goes in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The old S.O.F. match and early SMM3G were also great in this type of presentation, and at S.O.F. ALL the steel fell...untill the advent of the MGM flash target, which is the demise of good target presentation, and falling steel in 3-gun matches. Not an indictement on MGM just the progression. If you have a target that doesn't need to be reset, you plan for not having the help to reset it, which makes you a bit lazy in having the help to paint it, to planing on not painting it...and so it snow balls on it,s path the the least amount of work for the most amount of $$. Now we are there! Enjoy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hey Kurt, How did you get 16" to 20" steel to fall when hit with 223's at 400+ yrds without them being blown down by the wind? Did you guys have access to equipment I've not seen at the Whittington center? Every time we break out the Larue falling targets and set them light enough for 223's at distance, the wind blows them down, or the slightest shift in base turns them high maintenance. I've shot on the silhouette range at Whittington, on days when the large, 30lb rams on the 500m line were blowing off the steel bases and those same rams will not go down with 223 hits. Also how did you handle targets which were hit but did not fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Go to IPSC.org and down load the rifle rules. In the back of the rule set is a whole list of approved targets and designs for each target. This will answer your many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Will do, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I have always wanted to try it but it's too specific. All the guns and gear are so different than TO. I finally have everything but an irons rifle. If I could use a red dot I'd give it a go. Edited January 26, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I read the entire 64 page IPSC rifle rules and they didn't answer my questions. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Apendix B and C covers exactly what you asked. Size of targets, at what range they are used, diagrams of how to build them etc. There is even a nice part in there about target presentation. These apendicies are found in the page 51-58 range of the PDF down load. BTW it is 67 pages long on my computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If one is cross-eyed AND dyslexic; does that mean they can see both the target and the sights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101abn11b Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I've shot on the silhouette range at Whittington, on days when the large, 30lb rams on the 500m line were blowing off the steel bases and those same rams will not go down with 223 hits. And here i was thinking that centerfire 22's , 223 , were prohibited on the silhouette range at NRAWC , did they change the rule in the last 5 months because the sign was still up last Sept ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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