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Kimbertarget

DOUG KOENIG S&W 1911 1st time shooting impressions

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I never shot a 1911 with an external extractor.so i figure test one that is a production model that is a middle of the road 1911. Not a philipino S.A.M 1911 nor an STI/SVI etc..

Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint. Then with quick mags changes sometimes they wouldnt seat unless you really waited for a positive engagment of the mag catch.

The serrations front and rear on slide are so close they are actually smooth and provided NO grip and with sweaty hands i would have never been able to cycle it especially with the heavy recoil spring which feels heavier than 16lbs. The main spring housing checkering was nice and aggressive and wish it was the same in the front strap but nope it was just vertical serrations while are aesthetically easy on the eyes it provided no positive purchase. The slide and lockup didnt seem tight and you could wiggle the slide laterally. The fit and finish was ok,the beaver tail was on par with what a drop-in would look like on any 1911.

The good: sights,undercut trigger guard for higher grip,magwell and decent trigger pull and a trick looking skeletonized trigger.

I shot the steel plate rack and it pointed well and shot better than average.

In all i wasnt impressed overall and was glad it was a loaner because if i shelled out the coin they go for i would have been unhappy with it.

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Edited by Kimbertarget

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I never shot a 1911 with an external extractor.so i figure test one that is a production model that is a middle of the road 1911. Not a philipino S.A.M 1911 nor an STI/SVI etc..

What's a S.A.M. 1911? I've never heard that term before.

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Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint.

Never saw the point of ambi safeties. It's like selling cars with a steering wheel on both sides.

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I never shot a 1911 with an external extractor.so i figure test one that is a production model that is a middle of the road 1911. Not a philipino S.A.M 1911 nor an STI/SVI etc..

What's a S.A.M. 1911? I've never heard that term before.
S.A.M. SHOOTERS ARMS manufacturing has been making 1911s longer than ARMSCOR so i dont understand how you never heard of them. ARMCOR makes the STI SPARTAN(plus many other 1911s)and S.A.M. Makes alot of 1911s,one of which is the IVER JOHNSON EAGLE,HAWK 1911s.

I consider a true 1911 to be made and assembled here in the U.S.A. However there are many philipino 1911s that people still think are made in the U.S.A.

I consider the M.I.M.,philipino 1911s the low grade models, then production USA MADE, production semi-custom,then full house built/designed to order customs.

Hope that cleared things up a bit.

Back to the DOUG KOENIG 1911 i can see why they didnt increase in value and can be found for less than $1,000. This is oneof those 1911s that you want to like and have high hope for and it was a let down. They are a good looking 1911 but they are not tight at all and even if the external extracter is finally dialed in,im still a fan of the origional J.M.B. 1911 :)

Im going to see if my shop will sponsor a different 1911 that ive never ran before. Any suggestions? I was thinking of that SIG max michel Or a similiar semi-custom and run a steel challenge match with it.

I wish magazines actually competed with the models they test not just put them in a ransom rest and shoot expensive ammo to get these small groups to market them to the magazine buyers.

Edited by Kimbertarget

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S.A.M. SHOOTERS ARMS manufacturing has been making 1911s longer than ARMSCOR so i dont understand how you never heard of them. ARMCOR makes the STI SPARTAN(plus many other 1911s)and S.A.M. Makes alot of 1911s,one of which is the IVER JOHNSON EAGLE,HAWK 1911s.

Easy I started out competing with a Glock then moved to an STI Edge got out of shooting for 10+ years and now I shoot a revolver. So I have very little knowledge of 1911 pistols. I'm interested in them that's why I read this section of the Enos forum.

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I guess I had the opposite experience with the DK. I think its a pretty decent pistol for the money. I borrowed one from a friend and won a match with it. Its owner has classified expert in IDPA with it...so maybe it just you.

I think the fit, finish and craftsmanship are very good for its price tag. The specimen I shot had a few thousand rounds through it, so the gun breaks in very nicely IMO

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Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint.

Never saw the point of ambi safeties. It's like selling cars with a steering wheel on both sides.

Maybe it's because of left handed shooters like me....

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I guess I had the opposite experience with the DK. I think its a pretty decent pistol for the money. I borrowed one from a friend and won a match with it. Its owner has classified expert in IDPA with it...so maybe it just you.

I think the fit, finish and craftsmanship are very good for its price tag. The specimen I shot had a few thousand rounds through it, so the gun breaks in very nicely IMO

Your friend being an A-CLASS competitor can shoot anything well. I have won production division with a bone stock compact GLOCK-19. Its the INDIAN not the arrow.

when your talking about your average newbie 1911 buyer with a $1000 budget this looks like it would be a great 1911 by pure aesthetics alone but it isn't without issues.

As for it just being me, how can a design flaw be my fault? I didn't make the magwell that doesn't allow positive engagement of some 10rd mags.

If you do a simple youtube or google search of other DK owners I am not alone.

my opinion has enough merit that my shop has loaned me this 1911 to see what I think of it. This is my view and you don't have to agree with it. this one is for sale so if you like it that much and it instills confidence in you PM me and im sure the owner will give you a great price on it.

I was curious to see what others have said and my observations and experience was spot on to the other reviews ive read.you can literally hold it by the slide and shake it and it rattles, the cocking serrations are extremely smooth and I cannot see it being practical in a stressfire or competiton setting.

I was considering buying this loaner for my misses but even she commented on the serrations being too close together and extremely smooth. the sights are good, but the lockup is subpar and it would need a quality barrel bushing for me to consider owning it and some lug work.even then the external extractor isn't my 1st choice. im going to shoot it again tomorrow and see how it runs with different mags and various ammo.

here is a quick video at 10yards STEEL PLATE RACK 2nd time shooting(1 of my Chip Mccormicks 10rd mag with large baseplate failed to seat and wouldn't engage mag catch due to the magwell) w 230grain Federal-it takes me until :24sec to get cell camera set up

th_DougK.jpg

Edited by Kimbertarget

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Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint.

Never saw the point of ambi safeties. It's like selling cars with a steering wheel on both sides.
Maybe it's because of left handed shooters like me....
My point was it would be a lot better to make the safety on one side or the other, with an option to switch it over for left handed shooters.

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Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint.

Never saw the point of ambi safeties. It's like selling cars with a steering wheel on both sides.
Maybe it's because of left handed shooters like me....
My point was it would be a lot better to make the safety on one side or the other, with an option to switch it over for left handed shooters.

That is hilarious!! You know so much about 1911s that you think that is an available option? Quality ambidextrous safeties work just fine and have done so for years. Some are better than others and we're always looks for the next big thing. But even if you invent the lefty safety for a 1911, I'm still going to want an ambi for my weak hand only classifiers!

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That is hilarious!! You know so much about 1911s that you think that is an available option? Quality ambidextrous safeties work just fine and have done so for years.

OK. So you then define "work fine" as digging into the finger joint of right handed shooters.

Try reading the OP.

"Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint."

I have had the same problem with them and in some cases, removed them and ground off the end of the shaft.

My point was a better design would be if there was a build option or mod where the shooter could select which side the safety was on.

Edited by bountyhunter

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That is hilarious!! You know so much about 1911s that you think that is an available option? Quality ambidextrous safeties work just fine and have done so for years.

OK. So you then define "work fine" as digging into the finger joint of right handed shooters.

Try reading the OP.

"Upon disengaging the safety i realized on my strong hand the AMBI safety on the right side digs into my index finger 1st knuckle joint."

I have had the same problem with them and in some cases, removed them and ground off the end of the shaft.

My point was a better design would be if there was a build option or mod where the shooter could select which side the safety was on.

I agree with you. There are some of the larger (wider) thumb safeties that do the same (but opposite) thing to me. All of mine are tapered forward to prevent that.

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Kimbertarget, I'm curious.....where do you categorize Springfield Armory 1911s in your hierarchy of pistol quality?

Next question.....you seem to disfavor guns with MIM parts.....what do you think of Kimber 1911s? (I'm assuming from your BE handle that you're a big fan.....but then again, sometimes people assume from my handle that I'm a banker who writes auto loans.) ;)

Edited by Carmoney

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wrote a big post and then deleted it. I pretty sure I agree with carmoney!!!

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should have gone with the COLT! Pretty sure we had a week worth of arguing about how and why they are the greatest chunks of metal ever made.

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Kimbertarget, I'm curious.....where do you categorize Springfield Armory 1911s in your hierarchy of pistol quality?

Next question.....you seem to disfavor guns with MIM parts.....what do you think of Kimber 1911s? (I'm assuming from your BE handle that you're a big fan.....but then again, sometimes people assume from my handle that I'm a banker who writes auto loans.) ;)

I think KIMBERS are overpriced and the external ejector models are SHITE. You have to read my other posts to get the inside JOKE on KIMBERS my misses had a KIMBER POLY TARGET and just loves her TWO-TONE PRO RAPTOR II which looks like a grand raptor but is officer sized. I will post pics when i get a chance,i called Kimber and they said the previous owner must have has the slide refinished because they never made a P.R.2 with tha two-tone finish like a grand raptor. It also has a flat top slide with the dragon scale/scallops machined on it. It is a very attractive pistol but i am NOT a KIMBER fan. They do look aesthetically pleasing in the case,but i would never run one personally but she hasnt had any issues in steel challenge with the ones she has owned and i didnt want to buy it. However i agreed with the guys on here and bought it so i wouldnt be in the dog house. Plus all the young girls at the range say its "cute" so having a KIMBER is like having a puppy at the range. Meanwhile my full custom with numerous mods only gets the nod from old timers.

COLTS will always have name recognition and JOHN MOSES BROWNING will always be associated with COLT. COLT is made in the Constitution state and for me symbolizes AMERICANA like my PANHEAD or my CHEVELLE. You can say your NINJA this or TURBO that is faster and handles better butyou know what has retained its value for over a century and will continue to as a PRODUCTION 1911?

Give you one guess..starts with C- ends in OLT...not a fanboy just a patriot. I rather have YOST or NIGHTHAWK customize a COLT than buy some philipino,spray and bake,large billboard roll mark lettered wanna be Tactical pistol. The only smart weapon is in between your ears!

If you want to know what i like and why it is based from where im from and what ive competed with.

1) SVI

2) BRILEY/MORRIS/YOST HEIRLOOM PRECISION/Rogers,BRAZOS,HARRISON

3) S.T.I. (NON-philipino full dust cover models)

4) the old all STEEL ROCK RIVER 1911s not poly,nighthawk,wilson,brown,BAER,Dan wesson

5) COLT CUSTOM COMBAT/or enhanced PRE XS models with flat top/undercut/flared ejection port,beveled magwell etc, (PEOPLE will disagree with COLT but it is the origionator and to me its the CHEVY SMALL BLOCK of 1911s, and only the two models i mentioned are ones i recommend as a foundation for a great affordable build. Any 1911 i havent owned ive been loaned or have shot at one time.

Then KIMBER,SPRINGER,S&W,PARA,SIG,ROBERTS DEFENSE

BOTTOM grade would be-

Any S.A.M. or ARMSCOR made 1911

IVER JOHNSON (ive had an I.J. EAGLE which was my misses 1st 1911 with STI REAR SIGHT AND TRIGGER and it was reliable for a season),TAURUS,CHIAPPA,Regent,american classic, and CHARLES DALY M-5 or any BUL ISRAEL models ive had nothing but 3-point jams even using chip/tripp/wilson mags and tuning extractor,etc etc, so ive given up on them

I dont consider SPRAY AND BAKE,RAIL 1911s true CUSTOMS like some keyboard commandos do.

Here are some custom 1911s i think are worth the money:(my opinion,so if you dont agree,remember is is MY OPINION). I am a huge fan of CROWNING/FLUSH CUT, or reverse plug and crowned bull barrels, as for frames i like NON-rail for a traditional 1911 and for matches that allow the extra weight, i like FULL LENGTH DUST COVERS for the surface area primarily then the additional weight without having to go with a brittle Tungsten F.L.G.R.

Just my .2 because someone asked.

Couple of my personal 1911s

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OTHERS (stock photos)

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http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/poppanitrous/3466ebd3de8a1193c99c7b47f5f2b997.jpg

Edited by Kimbertarget

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I'd still spend the extra $100 and go with an STI.

the D.K. Was a loaner i got to have for the weekend from my gunsmith friend.

In regards to your comment about spending the extra $100 for an S.T.I. You would choose an S.T.I. SPARTAN?

Edited by Kimbertarget

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KImbertarget,

You've got some serious money invested in those Yost pistols........one of my co-workers just got one. Very nice, though I'm not sure (nor is he) it is truly worth the price.

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I wrote above those STOCK PHOTOS...a few 1911s that i own are the COLT custom with the BRILEY SPHERICAL-44*crown and the custom BOB PATTISON THOROUGHBRED from the old 1990s 1911 heaven in AZ and my old E.D.C. OFFICER which are the pics i have listed under "my 1911s"

Ive always loved the NITRE BLUE pins and subtle touches YOST uses and even his BROWNING HP's are gorgeous.

Price is subjective, lie the guys on here who hate on my COLT the way others dont like GLOCKS or HI-POINT. But to someone that $$ is alot and well spent if it is a pistol that works and they enjoy it. I didnt need to have all that machine work done but i didnt do it for anyone but ME. YOST is like a BUGATTI or PAGANI,there is a niche market who has dispoable income and if you make 6-7figures that isnt very expensive.

You want to see pricey buy a KORTH or JANZ revolver.

Thank you for your reponses and input

Edited by Kimbertarget

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OK, this is one of the more entertaining threads I've seen in a while.

Kimbertarget, I got another question for ya......I know you're not a big fan of the Filipino guns, but have you handled anything by Metroarms yet? The so-called "American Classic," for example? I bought the first one I saw when they showed up in the mid-$300s a couple years ago, and I have been thoroughly impressed with the gun. I am fortunate to have a bunch of nice custom 1911s and 2011s, but for the money the fit and finish of my Metroarms pistol is pretty unbelievable!

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Carmo

OK, this is one of the more entertaining threads I've seen in a while.

Kimbertarget, I got another question for ya......I know you're not a big fan of the Filipino guns, but have you handled anything by Metroarms yet? The so-called "American Classic," for example? I bought the first one I saw when they showed up in the mid-$300s a couple years ago, and I have been thoroughly impressed with the gun. I am fortunate to have a bunch of nice custom 1911s and 2011s, but for the money the fit and finish of my Metroarms pistol is pretty unbelievable!


CARMONEY- your impressed with it why? Site an example of why it impressed you? Have you competed in any practical matches with your METRO? Are you saying that your confident enough to use this METRO as your E.D.C.? You say your are fortunate to "have a bunch of CUSTOM 1911/2011s" i am extremely curious to see pictures of them and why you decided to buy a METRO.
Ive heard about the spring issues they have. The only interesting component i see that the AMIGO must use an E.D.M. Procedure for their HAMMERS since they tried to go for the INFINITY look. The bottom line is what do you do with your pistol? How many rounds down range do you have through it and Do you use their factory magazines?
METRO ARMS is like a HYUNDAI (of 1911s) you look at it in the gun shops case and the machining jumps out at you as something impressive because the hammer isnt traditional. I wouldnt buy one normwould i give a METRO to a family member to protect their lives with,i would leave that job to a quality 1911. Your going to be unhappy with my response because you know im not a fan of OUTSOURCING in general,let alone "philp" 1911s(we use another term in SoCal that has no negative racial connotation ).. Everytime we allow another great AMERICAN ICON become "reversed engineered" we are killing out country. HARLEY DAVIDSON and the new liquid cooled engines from INDIA for example.
A 1911 in my home is made in the U.S.A. And if i custmize it the A2 parts will be from a machine shop domestically. I will pay more because i dont feel bad when i put them in my safe under my AMERICAN FLAG. Im sure there is an ASIAN comoany with all the same C.N.C.,E.D.M. Equipment we have, but ill never own one.

I ALSO find this thread extremely interesting-

I ALSO find this thread extremely interesting-

I find it interesting how much COLT bashing there is when it is the foundation for 1911s. It doesn't matter what shareholders own it now,COLT stands for something to true PATRIOTS of the U.S.A. I can see by who gets their opinions and "feelings" hurt, WHO is WHO.

We wonder why there is a generation of ENTITLEMENT, nobody can get their feelings hurt. EVERYONE has to be correct, I voice my opinion when asked and it turns into a completely different topic. If you are for the "sissification" of AMERICA , to use a radio hosts phrase, that's fine, but demand me to agree with your opinions!

Edited by Kimbertarget

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