e3 Loads for Major

[ZackJones]

I thought I'd start a new thread for e3 load data like the one in the 10mm/.40S&W section. I spent some time loading up some loads to shoot in my S&W 625 JM that has a 4" barrel on it. I loaded some at 3.7g, 3.8g, 3.9g, 4.2g, 4.5g and 4.6g. The reason I skipped some between loads is I was using the Lee auto disc powder measure and that's what charges I was getting. Unless specified the bullet loaded was a 230g Bayou Bullet. OAL was 1.230 and crimp was .471. Attached is a screen capture of the spreadsheet data I captured.

[parisite]

Thanks for going to the time and trouble of doing so.

Finding some more E3 is the problem now.

[ZackJones]

I know that's why I stocked up when I could. I guess the word about e3 is getting out and folks are starting to buy it up as soon as it appears. Check on gunbot.net for powder you just never know when something is going to pop up.

[EEH]

e3 is like most everyother powder right now,,,Gone

[Scott_Sweeney]

I'm loading 1.235 OAL 230gr rn xtreeme plated bullets over 3.9gr of powder for a 169PF load. It shoots like a creampuff and can out shoot me for accuracy. This is .1gr higher than everyones favorite clays load and is just a tad cleaner.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Scott_Sweeney

[zzt]

Guys, e3 was originally developed as a shotshell powder, and Alliant markets it as such. I've been using it to reload 12b shotshells for years. The fact that it works so well for 40 and 45 is a bonus. Although you can find it in 1 lb jars, that isn't typical.

If you want to buy e3 in quantity, go to a store that caters to Trap and Skeet shooters. If they don't have shot and wads for sale in case quantities, they probably don't stock a lot of powder. Although e3 comes in 1, 4 and 8 lb containers, Trap shooters don't buy it that way. They want 8 lb jugs, and that's what the big shotshell reloading suppliers stock. That being said, e3 is way down on the favorite powder list for shotgunners, so no one stocks a lot of it. If you can't find any near you, put an order in. It is available through distribution, and can be obtained. For example, when I was through about half of my last 8 lb jug, I called my supplier to buy another. The first thing he told me was he had no powder. He told me he would put me on the list and asked what I wanted. I said 8 lbs of e3. He said, oh, I have two of those upstairs. Let me check. One had sold earlier in the day, and I snagged the last.

We are coming into the start of Trap season and there are lots of big shoots scheduled. Check the ATA website or your State's ATA website. If a shoot is going to attract 300-500 shooters, it will attract several large powder vendors. For example, I live in PA. Early May will be the Keystone Open shoot at Elysburg. There WILL be powder available there. Vendors store up powder to make it available at these large shoots. Last year at the PA State shoot (10 days of shooting), there was enough powder available that you could buy anything you wanted until they sold out after the seventh day. It worked like this. Trailers full of reloading components would show up each morning before shooting started. They would be sold out of powder by 10AM. The same thing would happen the next day, and so on until the completely ran out. Check it out.

[zzt]

Forgot to mention- my current bullseye load is Rem brass, WLP, 3.6gr e3, 200 LSWC @ 780fps.

I don't load e3 for Major yet. I was hording it for use in 40 and I still have a lot of S1000 45 Major loads left.

[cswpsi]

This is a welcome thread. Bought an 8# jug several months back to try in 45acp, but had not gotten to it. Thanks for the data, it's very hard to come by, since Alliant doesn't endorse e3 for handgun.

[Absocold]

Alliant found that E3 has some troubling "pressure excursions" (their term) when loaded in pistol. What they found is that as the pressure curve goes up, it starts as a gradual ramp-up like any other powder but then has erratic spikes (kaboom) at levels lower then they are comfortable with. This is why they don't publish any pistol data for the powder.

Reloaders have found that it's freaking awesome in .45ACP (low pressure), .40SW (medium pressure) and even some 9mm minor (medium to medium-high pressure) but I would superduper NOT try this powder loaded hot in any cartridge. Especially in calibers that normally run high pressure anyway (looking at you, 9mm).

.45ACP uses shotgun powder anyway, it's a low pressure cartridge. Not sure why they won't publish data for that one. But I guess they worry some yahoo will try a +P+ version and blame them when it goes wrong.

[zzt]

Alliant doesn't publish much useful data on anything except shotshells anymore. While I don't doubt that Absocold accurately reports what he was told (or heard), I wouldn't worry that much about it for the most common pistol loads. Another poster to these forums had loads tested for pressure and found that in 45, 40 and 9 there were no pressure spikes. He specifically noted it was unlike Clays in that regard. He also stated the powder acted like a fast powder for light loads and as a slightly slower powder as the pressures went up. He is in a position to know, because he works for a firm than makes ammunition and reloading components.

BTW, I don't reload 9mm. I use e3 for 40 major (172PF) and Minor (139-144PF), and for 45 bullseye loads (156PF). While I could use it for Major, I prefer to use Solo 1000, because it drives the TC bullets I prefer for competition better (IMO). Also, I have a two year supply already loaded up.

Edited April 4, 2016 by zzt

[Absocold]

Over ten years ago when E3 first came out, I asked an Alliant tech about it. He told me that if I was careful I could use Red Dot data as a starting point for E3 with two caveats:

1. Because it's a large flake powder designed for shotgun, I should constantly re-verify metering consistency for the tiny charges that pistol uses.

2. Don't load it hot because of the aforementioned pressure excursions. Low pressure stuff like .45ACP and .38SPL was fine, higher pressure stuff like 9mm and 10mm, be careful.

I have read and heard of many others being told similarly via phone calls and emails to the company. So I do my part and give caution to those wanting to try it in pistol. Works great, but be extra vigilant about safety.

[bowenbuilt]

I have access to BAE's test facility. .45 ACP loaded to factory ballistics with all weight bullets loaded with e3 were well under maximum pressure. .40 S&W with 165, 180 and 200 grain bullets loaded to major velocities were under SAAMI standard maximum pressure. When BAE won half of the contract ATK lost the lab and now has to rent the test facility. They do not believe that the expense is worth the trouble to test e3 for pistol reloading and that is why they have not published any loads for pistol or revolver loads using this powder. I seriously doubt they will tell you this but this is the reason they have not published and also the reason they will not publish a new loading manual anytime soon. I might also add that up to 140 PF will all the popular 9mm projectiles were under maximum pressures but as has been said e3 is not a slow burning powder so you have to use it with some common sense. As long as you treat it like Red Dot, it's kissing cousin, you won't have any problems and it is a very good powder for what we do. I like to think of it as Clays with no surprises.

Edited June 12, 2016 by bowenbuilt

[Shadowrider]

How are you guys getting e3 to meter well? I chrono'd some loads yesterday and was getting a pretty wide ES (80FPS). My Dillon measure doesn't want to drop it any better than +/- .15 so that's a possible deviation of .3 grains from round to round (plus on one and minus on the next). It's odd because I was using it to good effect in my .38 Short Colt loads but it was a smaller charge and didn't seem to deviate as much. I've polished the bottom of the measure so that it looks like a mirror and used an aquarium pump strapped to the side of the measure and nothing has helped.

[zzt]

I never had that much of a discrepancy with my Dillon powder measure. To reduce it even more I took the thing apart and polished every surface. Now I get no deviation at all, unless the press is jarred by a problem. I use it for minor and major 40 loads and get SDs in the 4.0 to 8.0 range right off the press. I also use it for 200gr LSWC 45 bullseye loads and get SDs in the 6.0 to 11.0 range. 720fps is around 11 and it gets steadily better as you climb up to 800fps. If you load 45 to major, you should get SDs in the 6.0-8.0 range.

[bowenbuilt]

I have 4 different Dillon powder measures. 3 old style and one new style. I polished all of them and the drop tubes. I find that consistency in your loading rhythm is the key to getting any powder to drop a consistent weight each time. Stopping and starting is not your friend with large flake powders. Once you have established the load weight load each round in rhythm just as the last. A lot of starting and stopping will make the powder drop inconsistent, try to do the same for each pull of the handle and unless you have some sort of problem you should get consistent drops with e3. All 4 of my measure will drop it just as any other powder as long as I do my part. You might try bumping the charge weight up a few tenths and re-chrono, I find the larger the drop weight the easier it is to get e3 dialed in. I always try to shoot above the minimum PF and never have a problem with any of the Dillon measures dropping consistent weights.

[Shadowrider]

It probably is my technique. I know when I am adjusting it I'll get several throws that are plenty good and one will just go off the reservation and it can be either direction. Everything is polished and degreased. It would also help if I attached my bench to the wall, it's a Gladiator butcher block bench but it does have a little movement. I'll keep fiddling with it.