j28s Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I can't figure out a way to do it, but thought I would ask. Can you process and load .223 with a 1050 (as in trimming and loading in one complete step)? That is versus, processing it on the 1050, then loading it on the 650. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 there is alot of posts of this topic. I did read everything I could on this forum about loading .223. I have a 1050, bought a RT trimmer and tried a setup like you describe. what I came to the conclusion (for me), without going into a long story of the steps I did. I finally do it this way and it works well. and since you have two loaders 1050/650, you can easily do the first part on the 650. on a rockchucker with lubed brass: 1. decapping (using a Lee 40SW die) it only decaps 2. FL /trim with the RT trimmer 3. since the RT trimmer only FL and reduceds the neck smaller than you want, about .009's smaller than you need, 4. I run all the brass again using only the FL die, screwed down enough, so that ONLY the expander plug runs through the necks to reopen the brass to about .222. Thats enough neck tension to hold the bullet, which is about .224. You can determine the tension by reduce the size of the expander plug on a drill, using a file and sandpaper. Measure first see where you are at on the expander. . Tumble Then run load on the 1050: 1. swage 2. prime 3. load powder 4. seat bullet thats it!! rounds really dont need the crimp but if you like to crimp, then on the last stage add the crimping die. but really not needed. no tumbling needed either, since your not handling lubed brass or shavings on the brass, when loading on the 1050. I don't shoot thousands and thousands of 223 a year but you would be surprise how quickly you can do six to eight hundred rounds on the Rockchucker before going to the 1050. if your doing more brass, doing this way in your spare time before loading on the 1050 is not a big deal. hope this helps with this method I can get sub half MOA @ 100yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 If all you have is civilian non primer crimped brass, then for once fired brass trim to 1.74 after resizing. Load them up, shoot them, then use the RCBS X sizer die with the mandrel screwed down. This will keep the brass from growing, so you do not have to trim every time. Basically, for the second reloading you can treat them like straight walled pistol brass. You could do this on the 550 or the 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 exactly like Chrills 1994 said, you dont have to trim everytime, only when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Can you process and load .223 with a 1050 (as in trimming and loading in one complete step)? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Do all of your brass preparation off the 1050 Dillion. Your life, and your ammo will be a lot easier. Have realistic expectations of what the 1050 can do. Better ammo takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j28s Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks guys. I was pretty sure I knew the answer but wanted to check. Problem is that I may grab some brass on the ground that isn't mine. Don't wanna risk skipping the trimming. Thanks again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 j28s It is always better to trim EVERY Time. Just let it become part of your normal loading routine. Run every case through - some get trimmed some don't. Takes less time than "gauging" all of them then trimming what needs it. Much better ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 ^ this and it's doctors orders no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Mark your X-died ammo before you fire it. Bring two zip lock bags with you to the range. When you go to pick up brass, stick your special X-die marked brass into one bag. Stick everbody else's brass in the other zip lock bag. When you get home, tumble the two bags seperately. The X/died stuff can then get lubed, tossed into the casefeeder, and with the X-die in station #1 with its mandrel screwed down, start cranking out loaded rounds. No need to check each piece's length if you mark your stuff before you shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But I can process all of it faster than I can sort and make sure I keep everything separate for the rest of their lives (all of my brass is range pickup). Same goes for annealing, if my machine does the same thing every time, my ammunition is more consistant by running everything through the same steps all the time. With the setup the op was looking at, trimming on a progressive, you can size/deprime and trim 1800 cases an hour. The annealing machine is going to take longer than that to do its job, so your not loosing a ton of time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I started with factory ammo, and marked that brass. I might have some range pick ups, but I squirrel'ed those away in a seperate GI surplus ammo can. Back when I had just the 550 (before Dillon had the casefeeder for it), I was trimming each piece by hand with the Possum Hollow trimmer chucked in a drill clamped in a vise. That took forever, and was mind numbing, so that's why I seem overly ga-ga eyed over the RCBS X-die and seperating out the brass. If I ever make it over to Hi-Tech ammo, I'll buy a bunch of LC brass, then yeah, I won't bother keeping the seperated or X-die'ing them. I haven't done any annealing yet, so....??? I'd prefer not to sink any more time into case prep. How many loadings are you getting out of your annealed brass vs. not annealing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 How many loadings are you getting out of your annealed brass vs. not annealing them? I am also keen to hear the answer on this. I trim all brass as part of case prep but do not annual (don't have the setup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I also anneal all my brass. The Giraud annealing machine makes it too easy. Case life will likely be extended. But that's not the reason for doing it. Accuracy is. Consistent neck tension (the case is the platform to launch the bullet, and the neck is the most important part of the case). There is also the greatly added benefit with hard 7.62 LC brass than it reduces the strain and pain of its first sizing. Trimming is also easier as the brass is softer. I did it by hand for many years - now with the machine, for me, there is no excuse not too. Warning - if you decide to try it, learn about the technique. There is an art to it, and you must know what you are doing. This is just one of many advanced techniques for precision rifle ammunition. You will have to decide for yourself if it is worth the time. At extended ranges, I can absolutely see the results on the target face. So, for me its a no brainer. Accuracy! Edited January 13, 2014 by Doc Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j28s Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Good info. Thanks again. I think I will stick to 1050 processing everything, then throw it on the 650 to load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j28s Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Another question...using 1050 to process .223 brass. I'm thinking the brass needs to be expanded before the trimmer (make round again), but it also needs to be expanded again after the trimmer (for seating bullets). So what's the best thing to do? I was initially thinking (1) size, (2) swage, (5) trim. But set it up (1) Lee Universal Decapper (doesn't expand), (2) Swage, (5) Trim, (7) size/expand (note: decap pin is about 1/16" from touching shell plate). But...the decapper doesn't expand good enough for trimming. Thoughts??? Buy another sizing die for (1)??? Or? Edited January 15, 2014 by j28s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 You really do not need to do that, you are only over-working the brass. The trimmer die will quickly shape the neck round. Expanded after the trimmer - I do it. That is where it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotLoad Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 If I full length size station one then trim what kinda die should I buy to open the neck back up before I start reloading on a separate head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 post #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j28s Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Here's my problem. I have to use something like a full length sizing die or neck die with an expander (& deprimmer). Some of the brass I picked up at matches (some not mine) and the neck/hole is bent. I have to expand in order for the trimmer to work properly. So, in station 1 use something like a neck sizer die (collet die), then station 2 swage, then station 5 trim, then on station 6 I have to use an expander again...so that the bullet will seat. Note: this is with 223 ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) OK, for really messed up brass that's fine. I would not do all the brass that way though. Also, some needle nose pliers work wonders on crushed necks - just get them close the die will do the rest. If they are really crushed you don't want them. Edited January 15, 2014 by Doc Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Expanding the entire neck after trimming is wasting good neck tension. Size/decap/expander ball before trim, trim, then expand the mouth of the neck just enough to not shave the bullet. Then seat the bullet followed by a taper crimp just enough to remove that "bell" and you get a good seat with great neck tension. If you are using a 1050 then swaging on the loading head will accomplish the slight expansion with the swage hold down rod. Imho... jj Edited January 16, 2014 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotLoad Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Expanding the entire neck after trimming is wasting good neck tension. Size/decap/expander ball before trim, trim, then expand the mouth of the neck just enough to not shave the bullet. Then seat the bullet followed by a taper crimp just enough to remove that "bell" and you get a good seat with great neck tension. If you are using a 1050 then swaging on the loading head will accomplish the slight expansion with the swage hold down rod. Imho... jj JJ what do u use to expand the neck after trimming?Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Expanding the entire neck after trimming is wasting good neck tension. Size/decap/expander ball before trim, trim, then expand the mouth of the neck just enough to not shave the bullet. Then seat the bullet followed by a taper crimp just enough to remove that "bell" and you get a good seat with great neck tension. If you are using a 1050 then swaging on the loading head will accomplish the slight expansion with the swage hold down rod. Imho... jj JJ what do u use to expand the neck after trimming?Jeff With the swage hold down rod on a 1050. I use them on my 650 too. They expand the mouth just enough to allow for bullet seating.jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I also anneal all my brass... Warning - if you decide to try it, learn about the technique. There is an art to it, and you must know what you are doing. I have never used any other machine and only anneal bottle neck rifle cases but I built mine so there was no "technique" or "art" to the process. Set flames, set speed, fill collator with cases, turn on and come back every now and then to empty basket and refil collator. Edited January 16, 2014 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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