38superman Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) One more thing to consider. Weight matters. At least to me it does. My rifle as configured from the factory weighs a little more than 8 lbs. After adding a 2 lb scope, PRS stock, scope mount, and bipod, the loaded rifle is roughly 12 to 13 lbs. In the match I entered, there was also a pistol to be worn with all the associated magazines and ammo to carry. I am a senior with way too many pizzas under my belt. Running up hill with a 12 lb rifle and a 40 lb pack on my back is pushing the limits of my physical condition. Show up with a 15+ lb rifle and you will soon feel like you are hauling a boat anchor. What did I learn? When I do this again, I will be in better shape. My rifle will be a heavier caliber but I want the unloaded weight no more than about 10-11 lbs. I will not be stupid enough to carry all ammo for the entire match, + food and water, in my pack. Take what you need for a few stages and go back to the vehicle for resupply as needed. My pistol will be a polymer 9mm instead of a steel frame .45 Otherwise I will need to take a cardiologist and a defribulator to the match. Be advised. Tls Edited January 19, 2014 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbox Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The "bolt back mag out" rule KILLS the effective use of a gasser in a match with the time/cost involved loading match ammo and all the movement is not worth it. Before signing up for a match ask if you can "move on safe" if so go and have a great time. If its a " bolt back mag out" match grow a 3rd hand to help with dropping a mag, pulling the slide back, pressing the bolt hold button, just to walk 3 steps to the next shooting position, and ejecting a match round in the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
427Cobra Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Bolt Back Mag in or on SAFE for the SA guys is the norm, but certain stages mandate the Bolt Back Mag Out rule, this is done for safety on certain stages due to climbing a net or the mouse trap at Rifles Only, running in\out of culverts, BBMO is not required when moving to different shooting positions on a baracade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 427, depends on the match. as was stated earlier, these are all outlaw matches. the match directors make up their own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Bros_JLR Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I've shot in a few of these matches and my advise would be to scope up your gasser and go give it a shot. Go in with realistic expectations and get the feel as to whether you want to pursue it further. As others have made mention, ask if you will have to move with bolt back and mag out before you even sign up as that will be a frustrating experience to be sure. It's a much more common rule to allow semi autos to move with just the safety on, but nonetheless, some matches have the other rule. If your SA is as accurate as you say (1/2moa repeatable), then you'll be just fine and will just be fighting the deficiencies of the 308 caliber. See if you can maybe get some 155s ripping along fast enough to limit that caliber deficiency as long as it's one of the shorter matches like the Las Vegas one. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Lot's of good info here. Thanks for the links. So I gather it's not so much that a gasser that can hold under 1moa can't be competitive, it's the "mag out, bolt back," rule that's the real bug-a-boo. Especially if you might have to do it 5 or more times in one stage. Ouch. Excellent advice to call/contact the match director before sending any money to register to find out if this rule will be in play. A 1200 yard shot off a shaky fence post is a tough shot period. No matter what you're shooting. So, I think I'm still going to set up my gasser, get a decent optic (that 6-24x50 Bushnell does look good), maybe really go all out and get a barrel in .260, practice up some and give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) Here is a quick build for Woodys match. JP lower, trigger, barrel with heat sink, Vltor upper and stock, stark grip, PRI cf forend. Leupold 6-18x in a Larue mount. I know this isn't the ideal long range set up, but it's what I have to get started. I have some 75 bthp's and varget to try next week. We will see how it goes. Edited February 3, 2014 by shooter steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I have no idea how this photo stuff works. At least it comes out right when you open it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Steve, That's a nice looking rifle and should do very well at Woody's. If I remember correctly, you will be shooting mostly at steel out to 600 yds. A .223 with 75 grainers should be more than adequate at those ranges. I'm wondering about the scope. What reticle does it have? Unless it is has a target grid marked for hold over, you will need to know your "come-ups" at various ranges and dial up to the long shots. Some times those tricky stage designers will force you to hold over by not allowing you to adjust the scope during the stage. Just something else to think about. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 The reticle is a fine crosshairs with a target dot. I totally understand that this scope is nowhere near what I need for this game. It does have target turrets so I can at least dial some come ups. I will be doing load development next week. One bullet, two powders. I am also doing some brass prep on half the brass to see if it matters with this rifle. I'll come back and put hard data into a ballistic program, then go back to the range for my come ups. That should have me close, so when I go to the long range practice, at least I'll be in the ballpark. I'll be in the market for a good scope in a couple months. Right now I have to "pay off" the firebird Mka in brownie points with my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Sounds like you've got a good plan. I think you'll be much better prepared for your first match than I was. I'm looking forward to hearing about what you experience and what you learn from it. Keep us posted on your prep work and good luck! Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 there are a series of videos on the PRS website that are pretty well done. good approaches to attacking barricades etc. worth a quick watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowind0 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 What is the general opinion on a scope magnification range of 4-14x? Or is something like the 6-24x more suited for the PRS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Well I should add that when I open the thumbnail with my ipad its upright, with the computer it's upside down. I've got it covered both ways for the dyslexic crowd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock3422 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 The PRS people don't make it any easier to inform yourself from their web site. As of right now. http://www.precisionrifleseries.com/ The front page proclaims Precision Rifle Series 2013. The items on the left, run from newest to oldest. The About button, tells of important changes coming for 2013. The Rules button, warns that the following is for 2012 Only. The Events button, lists the events for 2013. I don't care about Profiles. The Series Finale, refers to 2012. Well, I think you get the point. I would want far more current information before I signed up for anything, but maybe that is the point. Secret handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 there were some website issues. long story. you will find up to date info here http://tacticalmatches.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/32/1/Precision_Rifle_Series nowind, i prob spend 80% of my time between 10-14x or so with 5% lower than 15% at 25x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock3422 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Ahhh, secret site, secret handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 nothing secret about it. it's a pretty good group of people that try their best to encourage new shooters. but it can be difficult to find the people who actually shoot when some forums are overrun with typer snipers. i think you'll find the signal to noise ratio at TM is pretty comparable to this site, where people read a lot more than they post, and what's posted is usually worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If you want to see about other matches and not just "PRS" stuff you can also look over at Snipers Hide in the competitions section. Lots of good info there. Same for the rest of the site. Lots of good info on shooting and gear. Site has almost 100,000 members and has been around for 14 years. http://forum.snipershide.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Went to do some load dev this week. 75gr hormady with 23 gr of varget gives me almost 2500 fps. I wish it was faster, but I've got slight pressure signs at this speed. I can go just a little hotter but at 24.5 gr my primers are really flat. Too much! Shot about 10 groups with the largest running around .8 but most averaging .4-.6. Brass prep makes a difference with this rifle, which stinks, because I don't want to prep brass for an AR, for it to get slung out into the weeds. I guess I'll have to see how the matches go. One thing that was encouraging was shooting my 3 gun load to get the scope on paper. 8 shots went into a .75" group, and this is just 55 MG's loaded on the Dillon with mixed brass and no brass prep. Might work in a pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Steve, Those are excellent groups. Accuracy should not be an issue for you. I know it's a pain to do brass prep, but for a typical match you shouldn't need more than 200 rounds. I wouldn't bother on a 3gun or carbine match but this is precision rifle and demands a little more from us. Fortunately I have several hundred rounds of new Nosler brass which is very consistent and ready to load. The necks even come pre-chamfered. I never tried the 75 gr Hornady, but I get about 2850 from 69 gr SMKs over 25 gr of Varget with no signs of pressure (20 inch barrel). It could be that Varget is just a little too fast for a bullet that heavy. TLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taliv Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ahhh, secret site, secret handshake. the new precision rifle series site is finally up. check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkynoch Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 This topic goes along with what I am having a dilemma with. I want to get into shooting PRS type matches some of them would be official PRS matches some would be just local club matches that are precision rifle. I would really like to build a gas gun though. I have a matched SI upper and lower that fit really tight. What would be the disadvantage of building this into a 6mm super cartridge of some sort. I was thinking 6mm xc, 6mm competition match, or just a 243 win. If I did a 25 inch barrel that was good quality like a brux or bartlein, chambered it with a match dimension reamer, and head spaced it to the bolt I am gong to use. I have seen AR 10 platform rifles shoot well under 1/2 MOA if they are put together properly. Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Check out the 6ar turbo. Very interesting info. I've looked into a 260 or 6.5 creed more barrel for my ar10. Too many choices and right now I'm suffering from a bad case of information overload! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I thought a lot about a .243 in an AR-10 format. It is, after all just a .308 necked down to 6mm. .308 magazines would work fine. I'm not sure if there would be any advantage in a .243 over a .260, but I can think of one disadvantage. A bigger heavier bullet makes a bigger splash both on steel and in the dirt. The .260 rounds should make it easier to call hits and misses. With my .223 pushing 69 gr SMKs at 2700 fps, I sometimes wondered if my "misses" really were misses. I'd bet that with some of the heavier steel plates at 750+ yds, some hits just didn't have the energy to move the plate enough for the spotter to see it. Tls Edited February 17, 2014 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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