Did any one else get he email

[nvshooter]

Got a email a few weeks ago and it went about saying it in a really nice way but I read it as we know were loosing allot of shooters cause of the rule changes but we really don't care cause we have gained allot in the last few years. I know I only started a year ago and Im done wonder how many other feel the same. Ive always thought some of the rules were kinda dumb but was still fun and didn't install any bad habits great practice to draw from concealment but not moving while behing cover is not a habit I want to form. That single rule change killed the game for me, and im sorry but no matter how hard they want to be different from uspsa its a game plain and simple. Seems they really don't give two squits a piss about loosing members though. Good riddance good thing there are many of other shoots out there to partake in.

[Sarge]

USPSA will welcome all with open arms

[Sidewinder6]

I read that and thought it was ham handed and tone deaf.

[chirpy]

I didn't follow her reasoning with the explanation about a couple of my pet rules problems and I know nothing will change if I complain so I will continue competing locally anyway. Don't travel much to shoot big matches so that doesn't bother me anyway.

Richard

[Nghthwk1911]

I am a shooter, and because of that I will shoot my clubs monthly IDPA match, I will not be a member, I will not have my scores counted. I will do my best to abide by the rules, but I will also not stand flat footed behind cover and retain an empty mag because I can count and have one in the chamber during a reload.

To me the team that sat down and re-wrote the rules for IDPA must have had the idea to destroy the game, write the rules to befuddle shooters into thinking what is done in the game might work in the real world.

And IDPA wonders why there are so many "outlaw" matches.

[GOF]

I didn't get that email, even though I have been a IDPA member since 2005. But, I'm not surprised by it.... if the previous posters comments are accurate.

In the NE Florida area where I live there ar 7 IDPA clubs within a 2.5 hour drive.... six of them are withing 1.3 hours, and 2 within 50 minutes.

I have worked with four of those MDs for the last 7 or 8 years, and all of them are wondering why "IDPA is shooting itself in the Foot".

That's the nicest of the 'quotes that I can print here. The others are 'not so nice'.

It seems to me.... as one who has been quite active in IDPA in FL for the last 8 years and served as a CSO or SO at three of these clubs.... that IDPA has decided to 'live on new shooters'... call it a gateway entry into action pistol sports. They have, appearently, decided to ignore the veteran shooters.

This has kept some veteran shooters from shooting some local club IDPA matches. For example, on local club had 82 shooters in Dec 2013. Of those, 21 were Novice or MM, and another 22 were unclassified. There was one MA and five EX, and a dozen or so SS... in the various divisions.

Wanna guess how long that match took to finish? Want to guess why the veteran MA/EX shooters choose to miss that match?

I can understand why IDPA wants to bring new shooters into the fold. I applaud that. What I can't understand is why they are alienating the veteran shooters who have carried IDPA this far. More importantly, why they lost (best estimate) 35-40% of their veteran CSO/SOs with this ridiculous "You Vill Take Your SO Recertification Now! And on the computer program Vee say... Schnell... Schnell!!!"

OK, so a lot of veteran IDPA SOs said... no. So, they just make new SOs, right? Not so fast. They are cutting the number of SOIs across the board. Two very veteran SOIs in NE Florida (wich used to have a 200+ paid membership base) just got de-certified.

Now, if a SO candidate from this area wants to be a SO, they have to drive hours south, and maybe find a motel room for the night, in order to be an unpaid 'volunteer' to make IDPA matches run.

As one MD put it to me a few weeks ago.... "I just lost my best SOs, I've got no one nearby to train new ones, and there is no way in hell I'll be able to find enough qualified and experienced SOs to put on a sanctioned match."

One MD (who shall remain nameless) summed it up like this " Everytime I see an edict coming out of IDPA HQ I'm reminded of that old TV show, The Beverly Hillbillies. I get this mental picture of Jed and Granny having a conversation by the cement pond, and Jethro then writing the rules".

I thought that was an accurate summation of what Berryville has been up tp lately.

[JerryShoots]

I received that email too and honestly it was a little offensive. I still plan on shooting IDPA as much as I can and participating but I get the distinct feeling that I'll see a lot less people that I know at the matches.

On the bright side I remember being told that IDPA "broke away" from USPSA when they started. Maybe something new will now "break away" from IDPA??? Wouldn't that be something!

I don't wish to get too close to the political comments/ bashing line as the forum rules should be respected but perhaps the answer to this problem is for the membership to make their opinion known the same way people do in political matters. For example if your local fire dept is closing down then a petition is started to attempt to convince the powers that be to keep that dept open. Why not a similar petition among IDPA members to retract some of the new rules that aren't well liked.

As for myself the treatment of long established SO's who worked hard to support the game for years was not fair. Considering most of the new rules are just putting old clarifications in print and considering we all adapted as we worked as SO's.

[CHARLES D]

I am a shooter, and because of that I will shoot my clubs monthly IDPA match, I will not be a member, I will not have my scores counted. I will do my best to abide by the rules, but I will also not stand flat footed behind cover and retain an empty mag because I can count and have one in the chamber during a reload.

To me the team that sat down and re-wrote the rules for IDPA must have had the idea to destroy the game, write the rules to befuddle shooters into thinking what is done in the game might work in the real world.

And IDPA wonders why there are so many "outlaw" matches.

Very we'll said. I was a member of IDPA since the beginning. Due to The parent companies policy, I refused to rejoin. At last months local match I got 3 procedures. That's after I showed the RO my dropped mags. Personally don't care about the scores. Just trigger time for me

[joshxdm9]

Jump ship to USPSA !! More rounds downrange and not as many silly rules. I do like IDPA for the concealment training but to many rules and not enough shooting.

[GOF]

When Bill Wilson formed IDPA, he did so because he was not happy with the direction USPSA/IPSC was going. So, he formed his own (for profit) shooting organization. He took some ideas from USPSA and added some new ideas. It became successful.That is capitalisim at work. That's good. I like capitalism.

Unfortunately, IDPA seems to have suffered a lack of effective leadership regarding Rules and member input. That also occurs with organizations that have grown staid and hidebound... and in some cases, overly dictatorial, and far too impressed with themselves.

But, I still love capitalism.

There are a number of smaller clubs that bring in 40-50 shooters a month (and $400-$500 into club coffers, that can be used to improve club facilities) who send their club registration dues to IDPA every year. And, for that, they get what?

Nothing, really. They can hold Classifiers for those shooters who want to be currently classified in order to shoot sanctioned matches. But, beyond that, what do they get for their money?

If their goal is to bring shooters in to boost club coffers ... capitalism at work.... (something the Socialists don't truly understand), they don't have to be a IDPA-dues-paying club. The groundwork has been laid by USPSA & IDPA.... just put on an "Action Pistol Match" blending both shooting forms.

A number of smaller clubs are doing that now. I do a SO walkthrough and say to the MD "This is not a IDPA Rule Book legal stage"... he looks at me and says... "I don't care".

And... the shooters show up. Do they care that the match is 'by the IDPA Rule Book?' 90% could give a hoot. They just want to shoot a challenging match....and it doesn't make a rat's butt whether it's totally IDPA legal (or USPSA legal) or not. They want to shoot and be entertained.

If you want to know why so many smaller clubs have earned the "outlaw" label... that's why. They shoot good and challenging matches and could care less what IDPA says about legal stages.... and 95% of the folks shooting at those matches will never shoot a IDPA sanctioned match. They are there to practice shooting skills they can't do (draw from the holster, 'rapid fire', etc) on the commonly available indoor ranges.

Now... why do these smaller clubs keep sending in their money to IDPA HQ? Don't know.

At some point in time, someone will come up with a simple shooting sport... with simple rules... that blends IDPA with USPSA... and they'll have a winner. ICORE is there now, but they only deal with revolvers... which are the redheaded step children of the action shooting sports.

Come up with a ICORE-like match for semi-autos (where you can have 30 steel targets in an array, and where paper targets can require strong and weak hand shooting, and where you don't have to wear a fishing vest, and where targets can be from 3 feet to 50 yards... and... OK... you get the idea.

It's the next step in capitalism applied to action shooting games. And, I like capitalism. Some enterprising fellow will do it. And, when they do. IDPA (under it's present cult-like leadership) will fade away.

They have forgotten who their customer base is... and as a for profit organization,... are now demanding a bit too much from their customers in return for what they are giving their customers.

[45 Raven]

The thing that makes this country great (even though there seem to be fewer things than there used to be) is freedom of choice.

If folks don't like the rules of a specific sport or game, they are free to move on to another sport or game, or even create a new one.

The alternative is to work the system from within to change the existing sport. If that is impossible, exercise the aforementioned freedom of choice.

Negativity damages our sport and divides shooters . . . . . and shooters don't need to be divided. We have enough enemies that threaten our Second Amendment rights.

[Sarge]

Must have been some email!

[BillR1]

The thing that makes this country great (even though there seem to be fewer things than there used to be) is freedom of choice.

If folks don't like the rules of a specific sport or game, they are free to move on to another sport or game, or even create a new one.

The alternative is to work the system from within to change the existing sport. If that is impossible, exercise the aforementioned freedom of choice.

Negativity damages our sport and divides shooters . . . . . and shooters don't need to be divided. We have enough enemies that threaten our Second Amendment rights.

Well said! IDPA is doing just fine. There's an SO class happening nearby late this month, and it's already full with a waiting list. Our local club match this past Saturday had the highest number of shooters we've ever had for a monthly match. The will be a few that decide it's not for them, but many more will see the value and practicality of IDPA shooting.

[freeidaho]

Bill,

Relax. Every time a new rulebook comes out or the sun comes up, people predict the demise of IDPA. It is the one true constant in life and it has been happening since the late 90's.

Yet club matches are trying to figure out how to deal with record number of shooters in many locations. SO classes are full. Lots of SOs didn't recerity because they wanted to take the new class, and there is new blood wanting to be SOs all the time. Many sanctioned matches fill up within a couple weeks of registration opening, and the match is three months away. Many have demanded another day be opened up at the Winter Nats, and most recently the BUG Nats.

In 2005 some highly creative people started up a couple of different IDPA-like shooting sports, but "better." None exist today. They died a lonely death without tears.

So relax. Some get an odd sense of joy at hacking against IDPA. Ya kinda got to let them, or they get real nasty. And I have the PMs saved to prove it.

Be safe, have fun, shoot straight, do it quickly, reload, and repeat...

kr

Edited January 2, 2014 by freeidaho

[GrumpyOne]

Two IDPA shooters walk into a building. ...You'd have thought one of them would have seen it...

Rules is rules...don't like them? Work to change them or don't work to change them and quit the sport. ..

[Steve Koski]

My apologies if someone already posted it:

To:

All IDPA Members

From:

Joyce Wilson, Executive Director, IDPA

Date:

December 18, 2013

Re:

2013 Retrospective and Area Coordinator Applications

Happy Holidays to all our members near and far. This year has been tremendously difficult and fulfilling at the same time. When the Founders started this sport in 1996, they never envisioned that it would grow and thrive as it has this last year. Neither did they think that they would ever need more than a ten or fifteen page rulebook. They assumed that the Founding Principles would be enough to guide the sport.

Sixteen years later, as we began one of the biggest growth spurts that we had ever seen, we realized that while all of our members had good intentions, we would need to clarify rules to make match officiating across the country and around the world more equitable. And, while the Founders had always been the keepers of the rule revisions, we knew that it was time to obtain input from our members to gain insight as to just how matches were being run. So we embarked on a quest to clarify the rules based on the Founding Principles and those thoughts that the Founders had as they developed the sport.

We knew that this would be a painful process and that we might lose a portion of our membership. The organization had become somewhat segmented as to how matches were actually being officiated. “Tribal Rules” became the catch phrase as members would travel across the country to compete. It was time to re-center the sport; or at least to give it a nudge back to the original intention. It was also time to hold our administration to a higher level as well. From Area Coordinators to Safety Officers, we needed to make sure that they not only understood the rules but would run the matches to the best of their ability by the rulebook. We also wanted Safety Officer Instructors to make sure that the new Safety Officers were able to officiate safely and consistently as well.

In September at the 2013 IDPA Nationals, we announced that there would likely be some changes as the responsibilities of our Area Coordinators, Safety Officer Instructors and SOs changed. During our work on the new rulebook, the qualifications and responsibilities for ACs were codified and ratified by current ACs and the Board of Directors. This information has been posted on the IDPA website, along with an application for members who meet the qualifications and who are interested in applying for the position of AC in their area: www.idpa.com/misc/ac.

Our Area Coordinators work hard as the liaison in their areas of responsibility and play an enormous part in the success of IDPA. We hold these individuals to a higher standard, based on the importance of this position. Due to other responsibilities and personal goals, we sometimes lose ACs in specific areas, or open up new areas based on increasing club/member numbers. BeginningDec. 23rd – Jan. 15th, IDPA HQ will be accepting applications for AC candidates in the following areas: SC/NC; WI/MN; WA/AK/OR; and VA. Once selected (by Jan. 31st), we will be announcing the new ACs on the IDPA Facebook page. Nominations should be sent to ACApps@idpa.com.

Along with developing a whole new website and rulebook, we were essentially redeveloping the framework of the sport. It was painful, it is still somewhat painful as we are still growing and finishing our improvements. But it is positioning IDPA to be able to fulfill the needs of the membership as the sport continues to grow. It will allow us to be more responsive to member input and with the continued use of the Tiger Teams, obtain more member input.

While we realize that we may have lost members over the decisions of the last year, we have also gained members because of those same decisions. While we won’t please everyone, we’re hoping to make IDPA a fair and equitable sport that continues to simulate real life scenarios. We hope that you’ll continue to enjoy our sport. We wish you well in what ever sport you choose to compete. Just keep shooting and exercising your right to keep and bear arms.

[BillR1]

Thanks Ken and Steve!

Edited January 3, 2014 by BillR1

[Chills1994]

Did I hear it correctly that reloads even behind cover have to be done flatfooted?

To put it another way, while moving from point A to point B behind a wall, you are not supposed to be reloading?

[45 Raven]

Yes, you heard and understand it correctly.

[Chills1994]

Yes, you heard and understand it correctly.

[Sarge]

That defies logic.

[Sandbagger123]

if IDPA is losing shooters, i have not seen it, at least in my area. It goes up and up. last match we had 70 + shooters. Even a few USPSA shooters came out to slum with us. You see, this month there will be only 3 outdoor matches combined for IDPA and USPSA in an area of million people. people are going crazy sitting at home and want to shoot.

what i have found is that IDPA is the gateway drug for people, if they decide later to go to USPSA and 3 gun. IDPA is more receptive of new shooters in my experience.

IDPA is a game, and should be treated as such. Same as the others.

[sigsauerfan]

so with this IDPA is pulling further away from uspsa. in a very edgy decision. no reloads on the move . reloads are critical in real life scenarios , which is precisely the purpose of idpa matches . at first glance, it doesn't seems tinted with great logics. however it might please newcomers , idpa want the word spreads that the discipline is more friendly-easy than uspsa .

Edited January 4, 2014 by sigsauerfan

[Chills1994]

Nighthawk1911 wrote:

...

And IDPA wonders why there are so many "outlaw" matches.

When I put on my 3 gun match (aka Broad Shoulders and Thick Skin "league"), it was time plus scoring. Two hits anywhere in the brown = neutralized. A "failure to neutralize" resulted in like a 5 second or 10 second penalty. After a shooter got done with a stag, scoring went really, really fast. None of this dividing by two business and adding x.5 to the raw time.

As far as some other person or persons starting another organization, especially from an outlaw club, that just makes no sense.

[Glocktogo]

FWIW, apparently the A/C's are expected to report the number of "outlaw" clubs they encounter in their AOR.