I noticed today.....

[tracker]

I was at the range today. Set up at 25 yards to shoot some groups off a rest. Uhhhg, it was more like shooting a pattern than groups. Shots everywhere. OK, let me back up a little. Before I tried the groups off a rest, I set up some clays on the 10 yard berm and some on the 25 yard berm. I proceeded to break the 10 yard clays with my new LC9. All is good. Switched to my M&P 9L and fired on the 25 yard clays. That went well.

Of the rest with the 9L at 25 yards at a paper target I would be lucky to keep all the shots in an 8 inch circle!!

So again I set up and broke clays at the 10 and 25 yard berms with my 9L, which I was satisfied with. What I cannot understand is the lack of performance off the rest.

Any one have any clue as to what is going on?

[Sarge]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

[tracker]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

I don't think it was a POI issue in this case, but rather inconsistently. I think it boils down to the shooter (ME!) I need to have someone who is more experienced and better give it a try before I make too many assumptions. I will also try off the rest at 10 yards to see what results I get. I must be doing something different when shooting off the rest?

Thanks

[Reshoot]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

I got the same results, with my open gun, Kevin. I will use a bench rest to determine a particular loads group size but, other than that forgetaboutit.

[Chris iliff]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

I got the same results, with my open gun, Kevin. I will use a bench rest to determine a particular loads group size but, other than that forgetaboutit.

Same for me, it's different, don't really care why, so I zero freestyle, no bench..................

Also sometimes naked, but that too much info.

[tracker]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

I got the same results, with my open gun, Kevin. I will use a bench rest to determine a particular loads group size but, other than that forgetaboutit.

Same for me, it's different, don't really care why, so I zero freestyle, no bench..................

Also sometimes naked, but that too much info.

TMI !!!!

POI I can change. But if I cannot get consistent results from the bench how can I tell if gun/ammo are performing well? Maybe if my off hand hits are ok then it does not matter?

[bthoefer]

I don't know the technical ins and outs of it, nor do I care. But I was doing some load development for my Open gun when I first got it and found that my POI was much different from a rest than it was from offhand. I don't mean from jerking trigger or whatever. I would put the dot on the target and it was not the same offhand as it was from the rest. I had to adjust my dot to where I actually hit where I was aiming at match speed. When I mentioned it to some much higher caliber shooters they said they never fool with benching a gun when sighting it in for USPSA. They too said it yielded different results.

I got the same results, with my open gun, Kevin. I will use a bench rest to determine a particular loads group size but, other than that forgetaboutit.

Same for me, it's different, don't really care why, so I zero freestyle, no bench..................

Also sometimes naked, but that too much info.

TMI !!!!

POI I can change. But if I cannot get consistent results from the bench how can I tell if gun/ammo are performing well? Maybe if my off hand hits are ok then it does not matter?

My groups are way larger off a bench than shooting off hand. I'm sure it is me doing something inconsistent when shooting off the bench. Edited January 1, 2014 by bthoefer

[Waterfowl-widowmaker]

It's all about the harmonics. My bullseye gun will shoot a ragged hole at twenty five yards, "just not with me shooting it". You can shoot it off a bench and it opens up to the size of a coffee cup and hits six inches high.

[Chris_C]

How are you resting it? On the dustcover (light rail)? I've heard of this changing things for the worse especially in polymer guns. One technique I heard to avoid this was rolling up a towel and resting your wrists on the towel, where the gun itself never touches anything but your hands.

[hornetx40]

The common problem is putting pressure down on the gun while using a rest. try to use the rest only to steady the gun but not having any of the weight on the rest. The gun should still be supported by your hands and arms. also don't lock your arms or elbows down to the bench. a high bag under the front of the gun and a lower one under your grip. but they can not bear any of the weight. Then it all comes down to being as consistent as possible from shot to shot. Shooting off the bench isn't as easy as people want to think it is. It is an acquired skill.

[ttolliver]

+1 what hornetx40 said.

I know for me maintaining contact with but not somehow relaxing onto the sandbags in the wrong way is really difficult. If I want a really accurate series of shots sometimes I'll move next to the shooting stall wall and let my forearm contact the post. That adds support in a useful place that doesn't negatively impact my shooting stance.

[Cobra99]

The common problem is putting pressure down on the gun while using a rest. try to use the rest only to steady the gun but not having any of the weight on the rest. The gun should still be supported by your hands and arms. also don't lock your arms or elbows down to the bench. a high bag under the front of the gun and a lower one under your grip. but they can not bear any of the weight. Then it all comes down to being as consistent as possible from shot to shot. Shooting off the bench isn't as easy as people want to think it is. It is an acquired skill.

Totally agree. I never thought much about this, since I grew up shooting off a sandbag or rest. I take it for granted how it works. You are exactly on the money, need to use the rest as a rest, but not put any pressure on it. That and having a consistent sight alignment and trigger pull. A trick that I just heard of for helping with that, put a piece of black tape across your target and align your sights on that, to help with getting elevation. Put a piece of tape on the target vertically and align sights on it to test windage.

Make sure you adjust the rest to you are sitting comfortably and can have a consistent hold, you don't want to have to adjust for each shot, that can mess with everything.

[benos]

By shooting off "the rest," do you mean sandbags?

If not, definitely get some sandbags.

If so, figure out what you are not doing on the sandbags that you are doing while standing.

[Steve RA]

My offhand is slightly different than that from a bench rest, I sight in offhand and then check group size off a rest when comparing loads. Not worried about POI when checking group size, just as long as it's on the target.

[jmcqueen]

I use taget dots. These areabout 1" and bright orange and stick on any paper.. These give me a small poi to aim at and I get excellent results off a rest to test loads.No need to adjust sights for load testing just shoot for group.

[MC1]

A buddy of mine just purchased a new CZ accushadow. Neither one of us could get a group off a rest that was very good. Ran some drills at speed and the gun groups just fine, actually better than fine. It was great. I don't get it.

[davefrommesa]

How are you resting it? On the dustcover (light rail)? I've heard of this changing things for the worse especially in polymer guns. One technique I heard to avoid this was rolling up a towel and resting your wrists on the towel, where the gun itself never touches anything but your hands.

This is what I do. Just to shoot off a bench when testing for what shoots the best. When sighting in my competition guns I always do It offhand.