Setting up XL650 for high quality 9mm reloads

[HOGRIDER]

Having loaded many thousand rounds of 38S & 45ACP some 25 years ago, going to purchase/set up another XL650 for 9mm in the very near future. My goal is to produce the highest quality loads possible since I'm very aware of issues with incorrect charging, setback, crimp, etc. Having set up my Son's XL650 a couple of years ago, he seems to be producing good quality 9mm that we both shoot; but with the number of hours he works, his reloading time is very limited.

I'll definitely have more free time to load; and I'm much more "picky" when working up loads as I naturally strive for perfection. Have purchased a Redding micrometer seating die and have a Lee FL carbide sizer. A concern I have right now, is should I go ahead and start off with a 9mm undersize die since I'll be loading primarily range brass along with new Starline?

When he was loading 40 S&W, I definitely remember my Son complaining about how much more "work" it was to load 40 S&W with a U-die as compared to a standard die. This may or may not compare to the 9mm; but before he stopped loading the 40's, I started cleaning, depriming, and resizing the brass with the Redding GR-X. This made loading on his end a breeze. And yes, we both use a quality case lube.

Will be loading quality lead for practice along with Zero and/or MG for casual competition.

Appreciate any feedback or recommendations.

[Sarge]

In my mind the Udie is worth every penny. For one, you won't even have to worry at all about setback ever again. It is just too cheap to pass on. But if you have a standard LEE sizer, try it first. Many have had great results using the standard LEE without going undersized. Use FC brass with the LEE and see if you get any setback. If the bullet moves AT ALL when pushed against a bench then get a U.

I tried the competition seater die and got the same variations in oal that I was getting with a Dillon seater so I sold it. I don't think it is worth the money in a pistol case. I did get a redding pro seater die and love it. It has a great adjuster knob with fine threads. Adjusting Dillon seater was a PITA.

And, I would also pass on the LEE FCD. I have read and read about it and it just seems more of a potential problem than a solution. If you are going to load a lot of lead it seems the FCD can resize the bullet if not done just right. There are enough "gotcha's" in reloading without bringing more into the mix.

If you are indeed using quality lube the Udie is quite manageable. When I use a dillon sizer now it feels like it is not sizing at all compared to the Udie.

[HOGRIDER]

Sarge:

Even though I already have the standard Lee die, and it's not an expensive item, I'd probably prefer to start with a Udie from the get go. And I do have a lot of FC once fired. Would you recommend the Lee Udie or the EGW? I see the EGW is more expensive; but they claim (on their site) that their product is made by Lee to their specs. If I'm going to purchase one, would prefer to get it right the first time.

I initially planned on getting the Redding Pro seater, but decided to try the mic version. Thought it might be a bit simpler to remember changes between different bullet types/manufacturers. Will probably at least give it a try in the beginning.

From reading many posts here on the Forum and always paying attention to post of yours and others with respected experience, I've not been inclined to use the Lee FCD. Especially when loading lead. So I'll probably go with a Redding or Dillon TC die. Have noticed many like the Dillon for it's ease of cleaning. Also curious as to Reddings new micrometer crimp die that's supposed to be released next month. Wonder if it would prove beneficial when switching from one brand of brass to another......

Fully appreciate staying away from as many "gotcha's" as possible!

Thank you for your excellent feedback and opinions!

[Glk21C]

Use a 9x18 Lee FCD makorov die in a single stage press to fully resize your 9x19 brass.

[Mastiff]

Redding Competition 9mm Pistol Die set for your XL650. Dillon has them in their Blue Press booklet. There's a reason - they are excellent. Period

Dog

[HOGRIDER]

Use a 9x18 Lee FCD makorov die in a single stage press to fully resize your 9x19 brass.

Glk21C:

I'm not familiar with the makorov to make a comment one way or the other.........

[HOGRIDER]

Redding Competition 9mm Pistol Die set for your XL650. Dillon has them in their Blue Press booklet. There's a reason - they are excellent. Period

Dog

Dog:

I'm fully aware of Redding's reputation; and agree they are excellent product! Right now I'm wondering if their sizing die in the Competition Pro set will do full length sizing on par with the Lee/EGW Udies?

Don't remember seeing their dies mentioned in posts relating to resizing issues.

Thanks

[Sarge]

Redding Competition 9mm Pistol Die set for your XL650. Dillon has them in their Blue Press booklet. There's a reason - they are excellent. Period

Dog

Dog:

I'm fully aware of Redding's reputation; and agree they are excellent product! Right now I'm wondering if their sizing die in the Competition Pro set will do full length sizing on par with the Lee/EGW Udies?

Don't remember seeing their dies mentioned in posts relating to resizing issues.

Thanks

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185165#entry2044071

[jmorris]

I naturally strive for perfection. Have purchased a Redding micrometer seating die and have a Lee FL carbide sizer. A concern I have right now, is should I go ahead and start off with a 9mm undersize die since I'll be loading primarily range brass

You will get closer to perfection with a casepro than you will with a die machined smaller than normal.

[Flexmoney]

What is perfection?

[HOGRIDER]

I naturally strive for perfection. Have purchased a Redding micrometer seating die and have a Lee FL carbide sizer. A concern I have right now, is should I go ahead and start off with a 9mm undersize die since I'll be loading primarily range brass

You will get closer to perfection with a casepro than you will with a die machined smaller than normal.

Agree the casepro will produce as new brass; but $1k is not in the budget......

If I had an additional $1k to spend, I'd go the Super 1050 route.

Guess I'm still having flashbacks of dealing with Glock shot 40 S&W brass; and hoping to get some reliable info on what's recommended for getting optimal resizing of 9mm done in a progressive press during a normal reloading sequence.

Thanks!

[Bob DuBois]

For me the U die in 40 S@W is the way to go. 9mm used the U die and Lee's standard die. Lee's sizing die will size close to the extractor groove and the standard die is a little tighter than other brands. You need to use lube when using these dies.

Lee also has an excellent primer punch design and will usually push the pin up instead of breaking. In order to size tighter, the case mouth is smaller, may slow your speed just a little and your press needs to be in time. polishing the Dillon powder through die so the sized case just slides over the funnel will help speed the operation up.

Lee's seating die, you can make small adjustments with a knob on top. I had some problems with OAL and for a few bucks you can send the plug in the seating die to Lee and they will cut a plug to fit the bullet you send. I had a flat one cut local and that solved the OAL problem I was having using heavier bullets in 9mm.

At present in 9mm using the standard Lee sizing die, Lee seating die with flat plug polished Dillon powder through die and a Dillon crimp die. Don't care for Lee's FCD if used Back it off and just use it to crimp.

This set up will work fine for pistols with a tight chamber, Seen it get several guns with tight chambers running. Midway sells Lee die sets in the $40 range. I don't care for Lee's locking nuts and would order a set from Dillon. May need to lock the sizing die from the bottom of the tool head as Lee's threads are shorter. One pass through the press and you have quality ammo if all your adjustments are correct. Now it's selecting the right bullet and powder along with tuning springs in the pistol for that load.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Bob DuBois

[RDA]

I am new to reloading and the XL650, but I have loaded well over 5,000 rounds of 9mm with once fired mixed range brass using my Redding Competition Pro Series set with zero issues from the die set, they work great. No bullet setback issues, no crimp issues, proper neck tension, consistent OAL (especially considering I am using mixed range brass) and I have only had a few that didn't case gauge and I did case gauge them all (yet they will still drop into my Glock barrel without issue).

I see no reason to use an undersize die if you have the Redding Competition Pro Series 9mm die set. The sizing die does a great job in my experience.

[StealthyBlagga]

Just get a standard Lee 9mm die set - the U-Die is not needed for 9mm IMHO. However, as mentioned above, FC brass will likely not be tight enough (I just pitch it). Sizing is greatly eased by lubing the brass first... just tumble the loaded ammo for a few minutes to clean off the lube before running through the case gage.

Edited December 26, 2013 by StealthyBlagga

[seanc]

Standard dillon dies. I've loaded in the area of 50k 9mm with once, twice, thrice and 10x fired brass range pickup brass in the last 3 years, and many more of other calibers.

The only 9mm I have ever had not drop into a case gauge had a 22 rimfire smashed inside it. I most certainly do not case gauge every round, only for majors, not for club match or practice ammo, but aside from one that had the rimfire case in it, I have never had a single one, zero, not drop into the dillon case gauge after loading.

I can't imagine why undersizing 9mm brass would be better, only means you have to work even hard running the press for zero benefit.

Tumble clean, hornady one shot case lube, keep the press supplied a steady stream of components. There are many bits of a 650 that wear and break in my experience, springs in particular, get spares.

[anm2_man]

Just get a standard Lee 9mm die set - the U-Die is not needed for 9mm IMHO. However, as mentioned above, FC brass will likely not be tight enough (I just pitch it). Sizing is greatly eased by lubing the brass first... just tumble the loaded ammo for a few minutes to clean off the lube before running through the case gage.

The real issue is: "Where is the brass coming from ?" I shoot most of my 9mm thru subguns - total unsupported chambers, with fixed firing pins. The EGW die is the only way to ovoid OOB's in subguns. I also shoot a lot of .40S&W out of my Glock. Most of the brass is mine, but it too suffers from the same disease as the subguns - But not as much. I did much testing early on. Using a std Dillon 9mm sizing die, I would average 10-15 out of every 100 would not case gauge. Using the Lee FCD I got that ratio down to 7-10 out of 100 reloads that would not gauge. With the EGW U-Die, I only get 1-2 out of 100 that won't gauge. That's why my 9's are sized with EGW U-Die and so are my .40's. Their failure ratio was not as bad as the 9's, but I hate having to demil any rounds.

PS: you will need to use some lube with the EGW U-die. and also load at a bit slower rate, where when you seat the brass in station 1, no jerking going up, because that die has almost zero flare at the bottom.

Edited December 27, 2013 by anm2_man

[HOGRIDER]

As I mentioned earlier, I will be using FC brass as I have quite a bit. And I see many here have had success with the standard Lee sizer, the EGW Udie, plus the excellent Redding Comp Pro series.

I'll probably order a Udie and see what plays out once I actually get started loading. And I think the post about polishing the powder through die will play a big role in smooth press operation as I remember that being an issue with my Son loading the 40 S&W with a Udie; and the cases hanging on the case mouth expander. Once we started resizing with a GR-X prior to the reloading process, the standard Lee sizer worked just fine; and the whole process was very smooth. Again, this was 40 S&W primarily out of stock Glock barrels.

Appreciate all the feedback!!

Edited December 28, 2013 by HOGRIDER

[DougCarden]

When I load my premium 50 yard ammo I roll size it and then use a Redding titanium carbide die set. I then bell the case only enough to seat the bullet. I set the crimp to .376-377. That is it. Roll sized brass will make sure the brass will chamber in anything and make it easier to go though the sizing die, regardless of what die you use. Just remember with 9mm brass....garbage in/garbage out.

Good luck,

DougC

[HOGRIDER]

Doug:

While your comments are truly appreciated, I wonder if you can think of what your procedure would be for that "premium 50 yard ammo" if a roll sizer was not available?

Have dealt with 40 S&W previously by decapping and fl resizing with the Redding GR-X prior to wet tumbling. Of course, it was a pain in the rear; but we never experienced a round that failed the case gauge. And the loading process was much easier as you noted.............

Thanks.

[DougCarden]

HR,I would use the Redding dies and not even think twice about it......Second, I would use Lee dies.

DougC

[HOGRIDER]

HR,I would use the Redding dies and not even think twice about it......Second, I would use Lee dies.

DougC

Doug, since I've got the Competition Seating Die, I'll start looking around for the Comp Pro Sizing Die.....

Want to say Happy New Year; and I thank everyone for their excellent replies.