FSS install problem

[BradfromND]

I'm installing an Apex FSS kit in my new Pro9 and I have run into a problem. When I install the new trigger into the frame and put the retaining pin in, the front of the trigger contacts the frame and does not allow enough forward travel for the safety bar to reset. Should I remove material from the front of the trigger or the frame to allow the trigger enough forward travel to allow resetting the safety bar? Has anyone else ever ran into this problem before?

Thanks

Brad

[JMike]

Yeah, I ran into the same problem. My pistol was brand new and that was the reason. It had not been shot enough to wear that part of the frame. I removed just a tiny bit of material with some small files. You might be able to accomplish the same thing with an exacto knife (razor blade knife). You will not need to remove much so don't go overboard.

Good luck!

[BradfromND]

Thanks for the quick response. My pistol is also new....only 20 rounds through it. I test fired it before I sent the slide out to get lightened up. Should I remove from the front or rear of the trigger?

[BradfromND]

Also, there is another spring in the kit the is not talked about in the install video. They talk about the sear spring, striker block spring and trigger return spring but i have another spring to figure out where it is supposed to go. It looks like the spring for the sear lever for take-down but I don't really see why that one would need to be replaced.

[barneyb]

That extra spring is a replacement for the RAM (if you have it installed).

[JMike]

Thanks for the quick response. My pistol is also new....only 20 rounds through it. I test fired it before I sent the slide out to get lightened up. Should I remove from the front or rear of the trigger?

You are going to be removing just a smidge of material from the frame, not the trigger.

If you look closely, when the gun is all together, you will see what is causing the hang up. It is the trigger center safety mechanism that is hanging up on the frame. Make sure you look closely at what is causing your problem. Removing just a little of that frame material will not affect the frame in any way should you ever decide to put the gun back to stock and will allow the safety mechanism of the trigger to function properly.

Other installation notes:

The other spring, as mentioned, is for the RAM (reset assist mechanism) if you happen to have one installed. If you don't have one, I would advise that you get one. It is about $24 and well worth the cost. Makes the reset so much nicer imho.

If you use your stock springs (trigger return spring & sear spring), you will have about a 2.5-3 lb pull. If you use the kit TRS & SS, you will get right around a 4-4.25 pull. If you use the green TRS and the kit SS, you will get about a 5-5.5 lb pull. (this info comes from Apex tactical and it is accurate as I have proven for myself).

I installed the trigger with my stock springs and I was getting about 2.5-2.75 pull. I was a bit uncomfortable with that at this point and so I reinstalled the kit TRS/kit SS and now I have about a 4 lb pull. At some point I may go back to my stock TRS and SS but right now I feel it is too light. Btw, my Pro is the 40 S&W version.

I just bought another one of these kits for my M&P CORE. I really like them a lot and although they are pricey (I paid $165 for mine), they are worth the cost.

I just found out APEX makes these triggers now for the Shield ($75) and I will probably be adding one to my carry piece soon.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

Edited December 23, 2013 by JMike

[barneyb]

I radiused the tip (very little) of the trigger safety rather than removing any material from the frame. If you take too much from either one, it's cheaper to have trigger fixed than replace the frame. I use a competition trigger return spring on both of my competition guns and they have trigger pulls of about 2 1/4 lbs.

[BradfromND]

Thanks guys. I radiused the blade a tiny bit but the main problem was the front of the trigger opening. It was not letting the trigger move far enough forward to even allow the blade to be able to snap back. I didn't think the RAM worked with the fss. I believe the guy on the phone even said that when I ordered it. I got the return spring from the competition set to have a lighter trigger.

I now have another problem......I believe that I got they're standard sear, not the fss sear. When I pull the trigger, the sear doesn't even get close to parallel to the top of the frame. It barely starts to rotate at all and the over travel built into the trigger is taken up. I will have to call Apex tomorrow. I don't have my slide to be able to function test but I'm almost positive the striker won't be able to fall because the sear hasn't moved enough.

[dlfleetw]

You need to open the loop that contacts the sear surface enough for it to drop, you will need your slide to fine tune it though as every gun is a little different.

[BradfromND]

That makes perfect sense. Thank you

[fdc1999]

When I did my install, I also had the safety lever not clicking into place. It looked like a point at the tip of that little lever that was getting hung-up. I made just a few passes with a file at the back of the safely lever in the trigger, and now it works fine.

Are you sure the RAM does not work with the FSS? The kit includes a different weight ram spring, which I used and everything seems to be running fine.

[fdc1999]

The sear does not need to go parallel for it to work. Wait until you get your slide, then you will see if you need to adjust the hook at all. Mine did not need any adjustments.

[BradfromND]

I was going to wait before I tried adjusting anything on the sear loop. It drops, just not as much as before. I don't see why it would have to drop completely parallel.

I though I heard the RAM didn't work with it, but after watching the video on it yesterday, I don't see why it wouldn't. I will call and order one today.

[barneyb]

I puchased 2 of the RAMs to install in my FSS competition guns, but only installed one of them and then pulled it out. Although I didn't have any problems with it during the short time it was in, I didn't think it was worth the possibilities of 'dead trigger' issues that some have experienced with the FSS/competition springs/RAM. I also found that using the RAM spring sent with the FSS is lighter than the orignal spring and decreases the feel and 'click' of the RAM.

[awfaxis]

One thing to note when playing with the "shepards hook". My first instinct was to make the trigger release early as possible, but that did not give enough trigger bar movement to get the striker block out of the way. I found that the best way is to get the striker to release at the very last of the pull.

This prevents the light strikes, and has almost no post travel.

FYI: The sear does NOT go parallel with the block plane or else the striker lug would ride across the top of the sear. No bueno. Also, I have the RAM in it and no problems. Reset is loud and crisp. (Mid '13 CORE 9L).

[datsthat]

One thing to note when playing with the "shepards hook". My first instinct was to make the trigger release early as possible, but that did not give enough trigger bar movement to get the striker block out of the way. I found that the best way is to get the striker to release at the very last of the pull.

This prevents the light strikes, and has almost no post travel.

FYI: The sear does NOT go parallel with the block plane or else the striker lug would ride across the top of the sear. No bueno. Also, I have the RAM in it and no problems. Reset is loud and crisp. (Mid '13 CORE 9L).

To get the srriker to release near the end of the trigger pull.....would you open or close the loop?

I figure the more you close the loop, striker would drop nearer to the end of trigger pull, causing longer pretravel and shorter overtravel.

The more you open the loop, the striker would drop closer to the beginning of the trigger pull, causing shorter pretravel and longer overtravel.

Am I wrong?

[awfaxis]

Sounds right. Tighter the loop, further back the release point.

[fdc1999]

I checked with Apex, they said the RAM is fully compatible with the FSS. However, the newer M&Ps may not have the hole that the RAM is installed into, it depends on your rear assembly.

[quicky06]

I have a may 2013 pro 5" 40 that has the old style sear block that will except a RAM. It was my understanding that all the PROs came this way. I do not have a FSS yet it is on my list but i do have a CAEK with a AEK Aluminum trigger. I have found that the best way to set the trigger bar loop is to have it break as far rear as possible. this gives a long take up but a short reset which is more important to me.

[JMike]

I checked with Apex, they said the RAM is fully compatible with the FSS. However, the newer M&Ps may not have the hole that the RAM is installed into, it depends on your rear assembly.

Not necessarily directed at you but for those that may still have questions about the RAM. All of this information is readily available from the Apex Tactical website:

Applicable to what guns:

• This product works in Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, .357 Sig and .40 S&W models only that DO NOT INCLUDE a thumb safety, Magazine Disconnect or the Internal Locking System (ILS).

Note: *PRODUCT WILL NOT WORK IN VTAC VARIANT AND SOME OF THE NEWEST M&P MODELS DUE TO CHANGE IN SEAR HOUSING BLOCK CONFIGURATION. Please research S&W sear housing block change for M&Ps.

See our Blog post about RAM Ready M&Ps if you have any questions:

http://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/random-apex/are-you-ready-for-the-apex-ram/

Edited December 29, 2013 by JMike