2014 Brownells Rockcastle Pro Am 3 Gun Championship

[BobS761]

Why was the decision made for a 100% random draw after the shooting started and not told to the competitors beforehand?

I don't think it was announced either way until the draw.

[SonOfSpartans]

Why was the decision made for a 100% random draw after the shooting started and not told to the competitors beforehand?

I was not aware that the AM prize was ever planned as being in order of finish this year. I’ve been to all 4 Pro Am matches and AFAIK the AM table has always been random draw.

This^^

It seems the thinking is this. If you are an amateur then equal chance at goodies. If you are in it for prizes and glory, shoot pro. Keeps sandbaggers out of amateur side I would guess.

I would suggest a time limit to pick something and move on. Jmho. People were hovering and blocking sections of the table for way too long.

[slowhand23]

I recall last years AM champion did walk the prize table first, then the random draw started. The champion walked again when called by random draw. Based on this situation last year, I think most assumed it would continue this year. I'm sure this years champion was disappointed, the Rhino .223 or .308 rifles looked really nice!

Edited August 26, 2014 by slowhand23

[Suff]

The 1st year the AM side was all random. The 2nd and 3rd years the winner of TO & Open went to the table 1st then it went random.

[DDustin]

Have to say, the heat sucked the life out of me and I had the most horrible match I've shot in a long time. That being said, Squad 11 was awesome! I still had a blast. Met some great new friends and got to hang out with some old ones. Already planning a new training program to get better for next year! I will be back!

I have to agree with that, I had zero energy and it was probably the worst I've ever shot. But that says a lot about the courses because even though it was the worst I've ever shot performance wise, it's one of the best times I've had at a match. On the bright side, it didn't rain during the match and the heat dried up most of the mud from Saturday nights rain.

I also agree with the shooters bags. I was expecting a little more. Granted it's free stuff and it's not what I came for so it has no bearing on my opinion of the match. But it was disappointing. Mainly I wanted a dillo . I also really appreciated the practice range staying open the entire time. I would have liked some more distance but with all the malfunctions my shotgun was having, I was down there everyday tweaking things.

[OPENB]

I was told Magpul paid to be a sponsor, then just didn't show up. Maybe complications with moving out of Colorado? Hornaday was AWOL as well. I expressed to Larry that since it's Brownells' match now, it would be cool if they set up a table and peddled some competition gear. I had some cash to spend, and Adams Arms & DSG got most of it. We need to get Chris Serino some singing lessons!

[kc9]

Yes, practice range is very much needed throughout the match. It would have been nice for them to leave us some 4 target stands and more than one steel plate back there. Maybe next time they can accommodate this and possibly even provide steel flashers at 100, 150 and 200 yards.

Edited August 26, 2014 by kc9

[Bryan 45]

Dustin- as far as I know, Larue has no involvement w/ the sport of 3 gun anymore, other than supporting a couple of great guys, who also happen to be very good shooters. No more dillos at 3 gun matches for the past 2 years.

The NRA bags were cool the past couple years, but I don't think I've ever used any of the made in china tools that were in them.

Thank you to all the sponsors, especially the ones that participated in the match. Larry Weeks from Brownells, Scott and Cathy Samson at Samon Manufacturing, Nick Collier from DoubleStar, Jim Grainger and crew at Adams Arms, and all the others I didn't see- it's great seeing you folks at the range. I appreciate that they not only support our sport, but also enjoy it enough to come to the matches.

The entire Rockcastle family did a great job of hosting so many competitors and visitors. Jarrod and Logan ran their butts off on range duties and clean up, Bob and the kitchen staff served great food, Amy and Marylin were always smiling at the front desk, and I'm pretty sure Libby was there at least 20 hours a day between the restaurant and the winery.

Gary and all the ROs did a great job of handling so many competitors. Thank you for all the hard work!

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Katie Francis was the best RO there....I just feel bad that her dad never showered the whole weekend and stood upwind of where she had to start with the timer! I can't imagine how she shared a hotel room with his boots!

I had fun...maybe not as much as last year when all of my guns ran on all of the stages...but I had fun and laughed a lot just the same. Thanks to the RO's on stage 4 for allowing me the time for big deep breaths after my stage....I needed that to remain in control of my volume. Thanks to all the sponsors and vendors there, especially the guys who had the beer......and thank you / I hate you to all the various shooters who kept bringing me beer after beer....after beer... Saturday night until I had to get an AM shooter/buddy to both take me back to my hotel AND bring me back to my vehicle hung over the next morning!

[shooterready]

I recall last years AM champion did walk the prize table first, then the random draw started. The champion walked again when called by random draw. Based on this situation last year, I think most assumed it would continue this year. I'm sure this years champion was disappointed, the Rhino .223 or .308 rifles looked really nice!

Yes, disappointed would be a good "PC" description. Would have been nice to know they were changing things before the match started. I could have saved some of my $1.20/rnd 77gr match ammo and just shot my 55gr blaster ammo at the longer distance targets.

Anyway, I'm just about over getting pimped "at the drive thru". I shot a solid match with only a couple mistakes. Am I a pro, definitely NOT. Would you want me on your team in a gun fight, probably. Even though I work in the industry, I foot the bill for my shooting and cost of trips/matches like most others. Honestly, I don't train anymore and have never placed all that well on the Pro side in the past years. I believe all I did was outlast the top guys near the same skill level as I. The weather/temperature/humidity was mostly the thing we had to overcome and keep our head on straight for the entire match. I've played these gun games for a long time and have learned a few things over the years in that regard.

My original plan was to sign up my two kids and father and all shoot together in the AM division. But, given that I could only get 1 slot out of 4, I shot with my buddy. 3 generations of Lichon's would have been EPIC.

Most likely my last trip to the Pro/Am. Been there all 4 years and saw the same degradation most others have.

Rockcastle is an awesome place to shoot, but with the difficulty to get in and some of the issues I perceived I just may try out new matches I haven't shot yet.

I did like the stages, but money needs to go back into the props and targets that really didn't seem to happen this year. But, as I said this was my first year shooting AM. Plus I only won by less than 3%. Does that make me a PRO? I'm sure there will be opinions both ways, but if there are folks out there looking to help out, I could use more ammo ;o)

Big shout out to all the Sponsors that continue to give to our sport. It is much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to all the ROs and staff, it was a tough one to run this year given the temp/humidity.

First year I missed shooting the side matches, the back ups just hosed our down time enough to play. Well, maybe it was more the heat?

[steel1212]

I just don't get all the complaining. You signed up for a 3 gun match did you not get to shoot one? Are you really complaining that you didn't get a shooters bag with stuff you would never use instead the nra fed you? Are you really complaining about a random draw prize table? You signed up for amateur knowing that is what it was. I'm sure Shane is a little upset since he won and was probably expecting to go first but did you still not take home something? It just amazes me that people bust their collective butts to provide a great match and there is more complaining about the made in China bag that wasn't given out instead of all the awesome stages you shot, all the great vendors that where there and that helped a lot of you get through the match by fixing your gear.

Maybe I'm just different. I go for the competition. I go to see how I stack up against the studs of 3 gun. Everything else is just gravy.

[JRicks]

Why was the decision made for a 100% random draw after the shooting started and not told to the competitors beforehand?

I was not aware that the AM prize was ever planned as being in order of finish this year. I’ve been to all 4 Pro Am matches and AFAIK the AM table has always been random draw.

Steve, in the past, the AM winner walked the prize table first. Not the case this year.

[bigj45]

If the AM winner has to shoot pro next year then he should get the chance to go to the table first as in years past. Then random draw after that. With the winner's name taken out so he doesn't get 2 trips to the prize table. If it is going to be all random it should have been announced at the shooters meeting at the very latest. I think the way that was handled was extremely unprofessional and in poor taste.

[darkvibe]

If the AM winner has to shoot pro next year then he should get the chance to go to the table first as in years past.

Last year's AM winner shot AM again this year so I don't think there is a requirement to move to Pro.

[Outsydlooknin75]

I'm not complaining about the shooters bags. I was simply stating what I've noticed over the years, price has increased on the AM side to shoot it. I have no complaint in the random draw prize table, it is what it is. If I was to complain about a prize table it wouldn't be about one that everyone got to see.

[Zukeep]

Didn't get hurt, didn't get mad, didn't time out, had fun!! SUCCESS

[shooterready]

I just don't get all the complaining. You signed up for a 3 gun match did you not get to shoot one? Are you really complaining that you didn't get a shooters bag with stuff you would never use instead the nra fed you? Are you really complaining about a random draw prize table? You signed up for amateur knowing that is what it was. I'm sure Shane is a little upset since he won and was probably expecting to go first but did you still not take home something? It just amazes me that people bust their collective butts to provide a great match and there is more complaining about the made in China bag that wasn't given out instead of all the awesome stages you shot, all the great vendors that where there and that helped a lot of you get through the match by fixing your gear.

Maybe I'm just different. I go for the competition. I go to see how I stack up against the studs of 3 gun. Everything else is just gravy.

Don't believe I was complaining. I picked up two AR mags and some stickers along with my open champion plaque. And yes, I'm sure Shane is just as bummed.

[OPENB]

The winner DID NOT always walk the table first. The 2nd and 3rd year he did, 1st and 4th he did not.

[Novie]

I have shot #2 in AM, #3 and #4 in pro class. I am not a pro class shooter, but was disappointed in the delays on the AM side. Pro side is much better as to keeping on time. I had a match DQ this year on day 2. The staff was correct in the call and I plan on shooting it next year.

[LIKE2SHOOT]

The 1st year the AM side was all random. The 2nd and 3rd years the winner of TO & Open went to the table 1st then it went

Edited August 27, 2014 by LIKE2SHOOT

[LChico]

1. There is no requirement that the winner of the AM match shoot PRO the next year. Never has been. Never will be. Nick Noble stated during his opening remarks at the AM prize table that anyone who wanted to walk the prize table in order of finish - to select a prize based on shooting ability - should sign up to shoot the PRO match.

2. No one made an announcement that the winners in AM would not get to pick a prize, because the match was ALWAYS advertised as a random draw prize table. I went back and checked. Every mention by match organizers for the last 4 years - on the match website, on Facebook, here on Enos & even in previous years on the ARFCOM forum - the AM match is described as a random draw prize table. If someone finds anything different, please send me the link.

3. I cannot believe anyone is commenting on the price increase for the AM match. Over the last 4 years, prices for everything we have to buy have increased quite a bit. The match fee went from $125 (started 4 years ago) to $150 this year. And everyone was aware of that increase in February. If that was such a big deal, don't send in the app & let me get someone off the waiting list. During the same time period, some other matches I work have increased by $50.

4. I did not 'clear' the AM waiting list. I wish. Two weeks before the match, I sent everyone on it a message to give me their "last possible date to get notification & still shoot the match." Over 80 shooters had to leave the list because it was too late to make travel plans at that point. Many of those had been waiting since February. Now, those were folks who were disappointed. Of the shooters who emailed me that they could be there with 48 hours notice, I am really pleased to say that I found a slot for every one.

5. I also feel really badly about the long waits for AM squads, but I feel even worse for the AM RO staff that we beat to death. It is the top of my list of things I will strongly recommend we improve or fix for next year.

6. This match is not just about the stages you shoot: It is the entire atmosphere of the match. It mirrors the atmosphere of our shooting community. It is about side matches, and Pro Clinics. It is about the shooters who gather in the evenings to share a meal, listen to the music, socialize and talk trash about the day's shooting. It is about the worthy veterans charities who gather donations. It is about all the vendors who set up to meet their customers and provide support to this shooting community. I have been to several really large 3 gun matches with 2 or 3 vendors set up. The feeling of community is why I will keep working this match as long as they want me.

Linda Chico

[DDustin]

I just don't get all the complaining. You signed up for a 3 gun match did you not get to shoot one? Are you really complaining that you didn't get a shooters bag with stuff you would never use instead the nra fed you? Are you really complaining about a random draw prize table? You signed up for amateur knowing that is what it was. I'm sure Shane is a little upset since he won and was probably expecting to go first but did you still not take home something? It just amazes me that people bust their collective butts to provide a great match and there is more complaining about the made in China bag that wasn't given out instead of all the awesome stages you shot, all the great vendors that where there and that helped a lot of you get through the match by fixing your gear.

Maybe I'm just different. I go for the competition. I go to see how I stack up against the studs of 3 gun. Everything else is just gravy.

I have noticed that 3 gun is like the Infantry. We're all professional complainers. Even if we loved what we were doing, you can be damn sure we we're ganna complain about. We pay to be here, if it was about the free stuff it would be way cheaper to buy your own pmags and shooters bags, maybe even some stickers. It just comes with the territory for all shooting jobs and sports. If you are really that mad to the point that you won't come back, we can all use the extra parking space at the lodge.

[dwzuspsa]

I am 65 years old with post polio and despite the heat this was the most fun I have had, and the squad members on 13 all helped reset the stages....how do I know because I was on squad 13. The AM stage were fun and challenging....last two years I shot Pro and worked the match, got to much for my old body. I had the best shoot of my life and my twin brother said the same thing. We both enjoyed the match and the guys in squad 13 we shot with and would squad up with any of the m again....the only complaint would be to have the AM stages in the same area instead of driving two-three miles back and forth between stages....many thanks to the RO's and to all the great people at Brownells and Rcok Castle for a great match....for the money this was the best investment I have ever had at a major match....I have almost 30 years experience at USPSA major matches and run the 3-gun at my local club.

[prreed10]

I just hate that for the 4th year in a row, I could not shoot the cave side match. It was closed when we tried on Saturday morning.

[LEW45]

Steel 1212, LChico n DDustin you guys said it all. Great match, enjoyed working with everyone (yes even Dave!) look forward to doing it again next year. Do want to thank all of the sponsors n Rockcastle n their staff. With out them it wouldn't be possible. Thanks to Gary Welborn and Joe n John Harris. Great guys to work for.