NicVerAZ Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I have looking in the rulebook and cannot find an explanation regarding extra classifiers that some shooters will pay for. I suppose that it has to be for a different division than the one you just shot? Does USPSA accept the classifier score for the second attempt as if you never shot the classifier recently? Where in the rulebook would this be specified, if it is? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Just imagine being one good classifier away from moving up and your gun jams or you fumble a reload, whatever. You know you can run it clean so you pay for the classifier again and reshoot it. Perfectly legal as long as all classifiers shot are paid for. I think instead of looking for a rule that allows you should look for one that forbids it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicVerAZ Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Can I shoot the same division again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Read this from the classification book: Most of the scores will come from classifier courses set up by USPSA-affiliated clubs. The clubs are responsible for setting up these stages according to exact specifications and for administering them uniformly. They are part of the club’s monthly match, are included in the calculation of the match results, and are submitted for national classification of the member. According to USPSA board policy, members participating in matches which contain a classifier stage may be allowed to repeat that stage at the convenience of match officials, but this is for classification purposes only. The first score of the classification stage must be used to calculate match standings, but the best single run of the classification stage may be sent in for classification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Of course. You won't be duplicating since the best score is the one that will count for classification Edited December 9, 2013 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I watched 2 people shoot a classifier multiple times, once because his mag fell apart while reloading, it's legal, but I think it's BS. As match director, we done roll that way. I honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to keep shooting until they got the "one" they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I watched 2 people shoot a classifier multiple times, once because his mag fell apart while reloading, it's legal, but I think it's BS. As match director, we done roll that way. I honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to keep shooting until they got the "one" they want. Really? The classification system is supposed to show your true ability...having a mag fall apart is not showing your true abilities, it's just Murphy showing up. As an MD, I do allow my shooters to run it again if they can tell me the first one did not represent their true ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 So, to answer the OP, in case gng4life's post wasn't clear enough, you can re-shoot the classifier in the same division. your first score counts for the match, but it doesn't have to be the score that is sent into USPSA. I have re-shot classifiers on 2 or 3 different occasions, when I have had some kind of malfunction (brain or gun) the first time around. I'd prefer not to make a regular thing of it, but I don't really care at all what other people do, or if they shoot it 100 times and take the best score. At any rate, the club gets the extra money, and I know they spend it wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... All those things are perfectly valid reasons to re-shoot a classifier IMHO, but it's at the convenience of match officials, so you are free to treat your customers as you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 USPSA only charges fee's for one classifier per division. Match directors may decide to charge you extra for re-shooting in the same division, but USPSA will only charge you for 1 classifier per division. If you decide to shoot the classifier in a different division, then you will be charged for both divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I've done it once. And the second run was 2.3% higher. Proving that it was not worth it. I did it because I dropped a mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I watched 2 people shoot a classifier multiple times, once because his mag fell apart while reloading, it's legal, but I think it's BS. As match director, we done roll that way. I honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to keep shooting until they got the "one" they want. Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... Yep, all reasons to reshoot. Sorry you feel the way you do, me, it's all good if it's within the spirit of what we do. Do you allow them to shoot over and over and over? Of course not, that's not in the spirit of what we are talking about. I can tell you, I was so nervous when I was close to making Master that I thought surely I'd shake right out of my shoes. I shot it good though and didn't need a do-over. I did and have done do-overs while I was making B, that was a 4 year process, lol. I use to get the shakes and nerves really bad. I have probably shot Do-overs a dozen times in 10 seasons and hundreds and hundreds of matches. Most of them during that 4 year stretch TRYING to make B class. I would never tell a shooter NO, but, maybe that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... All those things are perfectly valid reasons to re-shoot a classifier IMHO, but it's at the convenience of match officials, so you are free to treat your customers as you see fit. Crap, Moto and I agree again. If this keeps up we will be looking to squad with each other! I think you nailed it, we are customers of a product. We decide where we purchase the USPSA product. If I was an MD, you can bet I would make my customers as happy as possible within the rules. Some people drive quite a ways for a match and spend hard earned money. I'd want everyone coming to my match, leaving satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Some people drive quite a ways for a match and spend hard earned money. I'd want everyone coming to my match, leaving satisfied. +1!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... And people accuse me of being a DICK match director! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... And people accuse me of being a DICK match director! I don't think that policy is necessarily dickish, and I have heard great things about the matches ray merritt puts on. There's a wide range of behavior on this topic that I would consider pretty reasonable and defensible tho. I'd way rather not be able to re-shoot a classifier that I flubbed bad enough to hurt but not bad enough to be 5% below my current classification than have a club steal my brass. In general, I think the best way to deal with extreme behavior (from either a md or from a shooter that wants to shoot it 10 times until he finally pulls off a 95% run) is through peer pressure and outright mockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Reshoots $20.00, problem solved!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) I asked this very question a while back, after watching umpteen reshoots after a match by a couple people. I asked because it really rubbed me the wrong way, perceiving it to be unsportsmanlike behavior. Reading the rules made it clearer but I still don't like the practice. You shot what you shot - come better prepared next time if you didn't do as well as you'd liked. I like moto's " In general, I think the best way to deal with extreme behavior (from either a md or from a shooter that wants to shoot it 10 times until he finally pulls off a 95% run) is through peer pressure and outright mockery. :cheers:". Alibi shooters in other games are razzed, deservedly and mercilessly. Let the flames begin! I ain't skeered. Mark Edited December 10, 2013 by redial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Murphy, could be, how about Murphy making your front sight fall off, or Murphy making your battery suddenly die, or I missed my reload, so that didn't represent my true ability, cause I can do it faster? You let them reshoot, I dont , it is what it is... So you favor shooters remaining classified in a division lower than their abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Some people drive quite a ways for a match and spend hard earned money. I'd want everyone coming to my match, leaving satisfied. +1!!!! Our section charges $5 per attempt for competitors to shoot an extra or a repeat classifier. $3 goes to USPSA, the balance to the club. There's nothing that keeps matches from setting the reshoot fee higher, if they see a problem with folks wanting to reshoot it over and over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Respectfully Nik, their score demonstrates their ability. There are no other accurate measures of a shooter's ability. How someone performs when they come to the match IS their appropriate classification, not what they think they can do because they did it once in practice or on the ninth reshoot of a stage. Just my dickish opinion ;-) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 We had a shooter request a reshoot this past weekend on the squad I was on. We had time so we allowed it. She's a D class open shooter that really wants to move up to C class. On her first attempt she had a No shoot/Mike combo and on the second attempt shot it clean. I think allowing a single reshoot is a fair practice. I'm not in favor of allowing a shooter to shoot it 5 or 6 times just to try and eek out an extra few points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Respectfully Nik, their score demonstrates their ability. There are no other accurate measures of a shooter's ability. How someone performs when they come to the match IS their appropriate classification, not what they think they can do because they did it once in practice or on the ninth reshoot of a stage. Just my dickish opinion ;-) Mark Why would an MD let anyone shoot it over and over? That would go against the spirit of the intent of a reshoot. The whole point is sometimes a run is NOT TYPICAL of a shooters skill set. Things do happen. The classification system is SKILLS based. It tries to measure a shooters skills. In this regard, I believe every attempt should be made to capture the true skill. Reshooting over and over is absurd and not TRUE SKILL. It's also something that seems to tick shooters off, and rightly so IMHO. Just the thought of that brings out contempt from most of us that compete a lot. I think doing that is crap, I don't understand why anyone would do that. But, I do understand a bad run, a jammed gun, mag not reloaded, any number of things that produce a run not typical of a shooters true skill set. This, is why we allow a shooter to reshoot a classifier. I think I'm in complete agreement with most everyone posting. I don't believe anyone should shoot the classifier over and over again, that's just not in the spirit of the intent of a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdad45 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I don't ever reshoot classifiers, I figure this is the best reflection of my ability. I am a high C low B shooter in general, if I reshot classifiers could I move up. Sure could, but then I shoot in a class that is not true to my ability. I have seen people reshoot as many as 3 times. All that means to me is that they will be a class above me I the majors but overall we will be very close together. The downside is now a look like a sandbagger because I regularly score around these elevated shooters. Look st my place in the majors I shoot and I am at 55 to 60 % of the GM score, right where my class is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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