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Alliant E3 for Newbies


Smitty79

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Yes, balancing the various reports from reloaders who are conscientious and experienced, I too have noticed a trend towards 3.8grns of e3 with 124grn bullets @ 1.122-1.125 or so OAL as being the "preferred" load in that caliber. I haven't been able to try any yet as the weather here is still too brisk for reliable data that can be used throughout the rest of the year, but that is about the level I will be trying when weather permits.

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e3 is not going to be for everyone, there will always be someone who posts a negative about it just as they have about N320. Most of the time when you see the negative it will either be someone who is really not using it and has been tainted by all the people who are afraid of it because of the various burn rate charts or they simple don't understand the dynamics of reloading.

The only reason I post about it so much is to try to get people to try it and not be afraid of it. There are only 2 negatives I have found using it. First, if you don't get the pressures up close to the middle of the road it will leave a dark gray residue and second it does not seem to meter well for people trying to throw small charges out of the LEE powder measures. The gray residue it leaves in Minor loads is just that, a haze of dark residue. I sometimes shoot 400 round ranges sessions 3 days a week. When I am really busy at work I might wait a month before cleaning. The residue it leaves behind wipes away easily and you don't have to rub and scrub to get it off like some other powders I have used. As far as metering out of the Dillon or Hornady powder measures it's just like any other powder, if you do the same thing every time it meters perfectly in all of mine.

The pluses far out weigh the negatives for this powder. It is not temperature sensitive, lot to lot I cannot find a difference after 16 pounds of it through 9,40 and 45, it is not expensive and is fairly easy to find, it fills the case well, it is not spikey and pressures are predictable, it give more velocity per grain than any other fast powder I have tried, it is low smoke with coated bullets and low flash, it does not give a loud report, burns very cool and clean at the middle or upper pressure levels and finally it is as soft as Clays at the same PF.

It will replace TiteGroup, N320 and Clays without any of the caveats associated with using these powders and with a little load development probably be more accurate, at least this is what I have found shooting it through various guns. Still with all the accolades, it is not perfect and it, for whatever reason, will not be for everyone but for what we do it is as close to perfect for using one powder for all 3 calibers as I can find. The guys running comps and popple holes will probably need to look elsewhere however.

Edited by bowenbuilt
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second it does not seem to meter well for people trying to throw small charges out of the LEE powder measures.

I'd like to add my 2 cents about Lee powder measures. I have the Lee Pro Auto Disk which uses a series of disks with pre-drilled holes for powder charges. I also have the Lee adjustable charge bar. In my experience I haven't gotten good results with the adjustable charge bar but the auto disks are spot on as long as you can use the charge the disk throws. I loaded 200 rounds of ammo Friday afternoon 100 for .40 and 100 for .45 ACP. For each load I checked the powder charge of rounds 1, 11, 21, 31, 41, 51, 61, 71, 81, and 91. Every time the charge came out at 3.9g which is what I wanted. Not sure if 3.9g is considered a small charge but my experience has been the auto disks are spot on.

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The "small" I was referring to, and I should have been more precise, was the 2.6 to 3.0 that people are using for minor cast or coated loads. 3.8 and up seems to work fine. I might also add the shooters in the group I am using as reference are not all experienced reloaders and some of this may be contributed to trying to check the powder charges as they load which in my opinion is a bad idea. If you disrupt the flow of loading on a progressive or turret type press while trying to check powder charge throws it will cause the problem rather answer your question conclusively.

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Alliant E3 is much too fast for 9mm. If you can only find "shotgun powders" then I would opt for Green Dot, Red Dot/Promo or HX-700X. Also the more expensive single base IMR SR-7625 would be an excellent choice.

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Posted Today, 06:12 PM

Alliant E3 is much too fast for 9mm. If you can only find "shotgun powders" then I would opt for Green Dot, Red Dot/Promo or HX-700X. Also the more expensive single base IMR SR-7625 would be an excellent choice.

And may I ask how do you know how fast e3 is?

Edited by bowenbuilt
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I'd like to see more about the temp change effect? What temps have you tried E3 at and what where your results?

I shoot it 3 times a week no matter what the weather unless it's raining. I have chronoed it from 100 degrees to just recently shooting in 15 degree temperatures. I have not seen any deviation so far. In both instances the ammunitions was left laying on the bench for more than 4 hours but never in direct sunlight.

Edited by bowenbuilt
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e3 will give approximately the same velocity as Clays with about one or two tenths more. The main difference between the two powders is when Clays starts to get spikey and erratic e3 keeps it's cool and stay predictable far beyond the limits of Clays. At the same PF I don't believe you could tell the difference.

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The "small" I was referring to, and I should have been more precise, was the 2.6 to 3.0 that people are using for minor cast or coated loads. 3.8 and up seems to work fine.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. You probably have the most experience with e3 here on Enos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

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Posted Today, 06:12 PMAlliant E3 is much too fast for 9mm. If you can only find "shotgun powders" then I would opt for Green Dot, Red Dot/Promo or HX-700X. Also the more expensive single base IMR SR-7625 would be an excellent choice.And may I ask how do you know how fast e3 is?

There are way too many people using it in 9mm with good success for this to be true. I've also read multiple accounts from people talking to Alliant that they (Alliant) state that e3 has essentially the same burn rate as Red Dot.

Edit: Quote fail Bowen.. I was trying to quote TonyT also.

Edited by Shadowrider
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e3 will give approximately the same velocity as Clays with about one or two tenths more. The main difference between the two powders is when Clays starts to get spikey and erratic e3 keeps it's cool and stay predictable far beyond the limits of Clays. At the same PF I don't believe you could tell the difference.

My experience seems to agree. I know it's better behaved than WST is with my 9mm loads. When I get to about 132pf WST starts getting large ES and it does it pretty quickly. That tells me that it doesn't want to play well if pushed much harder and I've pushed it above 135 and looking at the chrono data it was making me nervous. In my .38 short colt loads (basically identical case capacity) with even heavier bullets no such thing occurs all the way up to 146PF.

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Alliant E3 is much too fast for 9mm. If you can only find "shotgun powders" then I would opt for Green Dot, Red Dot/Promo or HX-700X. Also the more expensive single base IMR SR-7625 would be an excellent choice.

To me, e3 seems to be just about perfect with a 124gr bullet in 9mm for a minor load. 3.8grs gives me a 132 pf in my SV and Trojan using small pistol primers. I've gone to 4.2grs using a 121gr Montana Gold bullet. The primers are still round and exhibit no sings of excess pressure. Because e3 is fairly bulky, 3.8-4 grs fills over half a 9mm case making a double charge difficult. Now, if you are looking for max velocity, e3 is definately NOT the best powder for 9mm.

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Alliant E3 is much too fast for 9mm. If you can only find "shotgun powders" then I would opt for Green Dot, Red Dot/Promo or HX-700X. Also the more expensive single base IMR SR-7625 would be an excellent choice.

YES PEOPLE LISTEN TO THIS.

Then maybe I can find some E3 to buy so I can load the 5000 9mm 124 grain bullets I have waiting.

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second it does not seem to meter well for people trying to throw small charges out of the LEE powder measures.

I'd like to add my 2 cents about Lee powder measures. I have the Lee Pro Auto Disk which uses a series of disks with pre-drilled holes for powder charges. I also have the Lee adjustable charge bar. In my experience I haven't gotten good results with the adjustable charge bar but the auto disks are spot on as long as you can use the charge the disk throws. I loaded 200 rounds of ammo Friday afternoon 100 for .40 and 100 for .45 ACP. For each load I checked the powder charge of rounds 1, 11, 21, 31, 41, 51, 61, 71, 81, and 91. Every time the charge came out at 3.9g which is what I wanted. Not sure if 3.9g is considered a small charge but my experience has been the auto disks are spot on.

yep my experience is exactly the same. even with bulkier powders. I use AP50 for minor 9mm loads which according to the maker: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

Is equivalent to Hp38, E3 and N320 and W231.

In my lee press (loadmaster) I use the disks too and find them very accurate and repeatable. I too tried the micro adjustable charge bar and it was rubbish. every now and then it wouldn't drop any powder at all (just a few little pieces came out). that was enough to put the disks back and live with not being able to adjust to the last poofteenth. though once you have a load you want. if you can't get an exact disk to throw that charge you can go one hole smaller and then open it up a little with a round file. :)

apparently you can mod the micro charge bar to make it more reliable with smaller loads but I gave up as I was shit scared of getting a squib and was sick of having to carefully check every case and remove so many duds.

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In my lee press (loadmaster) I use the disks too and find them very accurate and repeatable. I too tried the micro adjustable charge bar and it was rubbish. every now and then it wouldn't drop any powder at all (just a few little pieces came out). that was enough to put the disks back and live with not being able to adjust to the last poofteenth. though once you have a load you want. if you can't get an exact disk to throw that charge you can go one hole smaller and then open it up a little with a round file. :)

I want a loadmaster one of these days. One thing I like about the single stage is that I visually inspect each case before I put the bullet on top to ensure there's powder in it. I haven't ha d a squib yet and I hope I never do. It's comforting to hear I'm not the only one that had problems with the micro charge bar. I'll just toss it into the bin that has other reloading stuff I din't use any longer and stick with the disks. I would like to buy some extras so I can modify them to throw charges I want. I wonder if you could adopt a Dillon or some other powder measure to work on a Lee single stage press. I may have to look into that.

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One thing I like about the single stage is that I visually inspect each case before I put the bullet on top to ensure there's powder in it.

I load on a progressive (Lee Pro 1000) and I look in every case before I put a projectile on top. Loading with E3 in .45 I have never had a problem with the pro auto disc's not being consistent but when I first tried E3 in 9mm I started with 2.9 gr under a 147gr boolit and if I didnt tap the side of the powder hopper on every round I often got a mostly empty case. That loading shot ok but wasnt anything special so I quit E3 for 9mm since the actual loading was more iffy. Fast forward a few weeks, decided to give E3 another chance in 9mm. Loaded up 20 each starting at 2.9 gr, 3.1 gr, and 3.3 gr. By the time I got to the 3.3 gr load, the powder measure seemed to be far more consistent. Best part is how they shot, virtually the same light recoil but the groups tightened up quite a bit, and the cases were cleaner. Am going to tweak a little more but I can see where E3 may become the only powder I need.

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In my lee press (loadmaster) I use the disks too and find them very accurate and repeatable. I too tried the micro adjustable charge bar and it was rubbish. every now and then it wouldn't drop any powder at all (just a few little pieces came out). that was enough to put the disks back and live with not being able to adjust to the last poofteenth. though once you have a load you want. if you can't get an exact disk to throw that charge you can go one hole smaller and then open it up a little with a round file. :)

I want a loadmaster one of these days. One thing I like about the single stage is that I visually inspect each case before I put the bullet on top to ensure there's powder in it. I haven't ha d a squib yet and I hope I never do. It's comforting to hear I'm not the only one that had problems with the micro charge bar. I'll just toss it into the bin that has other reloading stuff I din't use any longer and stick with the disks. I would like to buy some extras so I can modify them to throw charges I want. I wonder if you could adopt a Dillon or some other powder measure to work on a Lee single stage press. I may have to look into that.

the load master is a great press. it has some quirks and you need to be willing to spend a little time carefully setting it up. but once that's done it runs very nicely. the case feeder works stupidly well, primer system is much faster to fill than dillon but I get the odd flipped primer or crushed primer (only 1 in probably 500 or so). the bullet feeder is cheap and a bit fidly but even without it you can load rounds pretty rapidly.

I run mine with lee dies now.

use a universal decapper (or a sizer at the moment since i bent the decapper pin and didn't have a space) in station one to deprime

I run the sizer (with no pin) in station 2 which is where it primes (good to have the case held in a die while it's being primed, gives very consistent primer depth and having the case sized twice doesn't hurt).

powder drop and flare in station 3 (this is one thing the lee dies do worse than dillon, case flare is not really very adjustable, I also disconected the chain system and just use the spring for the powder drop, I like it better).

seat only in station 4. much better results once you seperate out seat and crimp into 2 stations. use a lee seat and crimp die with the crimp backed off completely.

factory crimp die in station 5 for post size and a light crimp.

spits out beautiful and super reliable 9mm ammo like a champion.

to the guy with the pro1000. do yourself a favor and get rid of it. they are an abomination. you cannot make CONSISTENT good quality ammo with only 3 stations. sure you'll get some good rounds, but it's just not cricket! the lee 4 station classic turret press is a bit slower but a much better press and will give much better ammo. the pro1000 is a really rubbish product. It's one of the things that gives lee stuff a bad name. which is a shame as lots of their stuff (FCD, sizers etc) are great.

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I couldn't find the 4s or 8s in stock anywhere so I just bought 10 of the 1 lb containers from PV I think.... Saving $20 on a year's worth of powder wasn't worth the hassle or stress of tracking it down. It was in stock over the holidays.

Can someone ask a mod to delete this thread? Last thing we need is more people drying up the supply... :devil:

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I couldn't find the 4s or 8s in stock anywhere so I just bought 10 of the 1 lb containers from PV I think.... Saving $20 on a year's worth of powder wasn't worth the hassle or stress of tracking it down. It was in stock over the holidays.

Can someone ask a mod to delete this thread? Last thing we need is more people drying up the supply...

I found E3 to replace Solo 1000 that I couldn't find. I like E3 better...now can't get any of that either.

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