Lee FCD and cast bullet disclaimers…

[pewpew]

Been using them for a few years and noticed that some cast bullet makers are increasingly advising against its use… Is this simply because of barrel leading issues? It’s the only thing I’ve noticed bad about them… and I can live with that… because feeding issues disappear and accuracy doesn’t seem to suffer… Tried “U” dies and still had an occasional FTF…

[Gandof]

I use the "U" die and the factory crimp on both the 9 and 40. I use very little crimp, and have tested ammo loaded both with and without the FCD with no noticable difference in accuracy. I chamber check all my ammo. Any rounds that do not chamber easily are sorted out to be run through the FCD on a single stage, adjusting the die until the round chambers easily. These rounds go in the practice bucket and are not used in matches.

[bigdawgbeav]

I use the FCD on lead and coated lead with no leading issues in my guns.

[GBertolet]

The controversy on using the Lee Factory Crimp die with cast bullets is, the cast bullet can be swaged down by the die to an undersized diameter if you are not careful. This die has a carbide ring that sizes the loaded round also, if out of Lee's specifications. I use one in the .40 with good results on cast bullets.

Edited December 11, 2013 by GBertolet

[anachronism]

Cartridge cases vary slightly from maker to maker, especially case wall thickness. If the case walls are thicker than Lee thinks they should be, or the bullet is larger in finished diameter than Lee thinks it should be, the OD of the finishe round will be reduced to what Lee thinks it should be. Regardless of circumstances. Since the case thickness can't be affected by this additional sizing, the bullet take the beating and is swaged down below its original diameter. An undersized cast bullet leads the bore, and is usually inaccurate, sometimes even keyholing. There are some magic combinations of brass and bullet sizes, coupled with barrel bore dimensions. This is why some guys have better luck with the FCD than others. I've had a number of them, I cast my own bullets, and carefully size them to the appropriate dimensions, and I loathe the FCD with an irridescent purple passion.

Edited December 12, 2013 by anachronism

[98sr20ve]

Been using them for a few years and noticed that some cast bullet makers are increasingly advising against its use… Is this simply because of barrel leading issues? It’s the only thing I’ve noticed bad about them… and I can live with that… because feeding issues disappear and accuracy doesn’t seem to suffer… Tried “U” dies and still had an occasional FTF…

The FCD has the ability to swage down the bullet. It won't in every situation but depending on the combo it can happen. IF IT HAPPENS the accuracy of that round will be HORRIBLE. It will also cause leading which will make the accuracy HORRIBLE. It's just the nature of shooting Lead. Fit to the barrel with lead is the single most important thing. Every thing else pals in comparison. My normal 9mm cast bullet is sized at .357+ (or said another way .002+ larger then Jackted). It will shoot 2.5 inchs out of my KKM barrel at 25 yds freestyle 10 rds if I do my part. Your going about fixing a minor function issue by using a sledgehammer on every round. Just get a case gauge and case gauge the match ammo. If I can get a Lead bullet size .002" oversize to run perfectly in a tight KKM barrel then anyone who wants to do it can do the same.

[Agent #1911]

Been using them for a few years and noticed that some cast bullet makers are increasingly advising against its use… Is this simply because of barrel leading issues? It’s the only thing I’ve noticed bad about them… and I can live with that… because feeding issues disappear and accuracy doesn’t seem to suffer… Tried “U” dies and still had an occasional FTF…

Factory Crimp Die is designed for factory diameter bullets. cast bullets are 0.001 wider

[GunslingerDK]

I use the FCD without internals in the 2nd station on the 1050. I only use it to get rid of the bulge on the buttom of the case, for which it does a really good job. I use the Dillon taper crimp. Ohh, and I only use lead bullets.

[wide45]

I used the FCD with lead bullets for years. I was very happy with the results, and had no problems with leading or accuracy.

[katit]

FCD with 200gr SWC bullets works great for me. Accurate and no leading. I don't like FCD but for another reason

[thermobollocks]

Mine works all right, but I do notice the binding as I'm cramming stuff in. I'd probably prefer a traditional taper crimp in my .45 ACP for that reason.

[at_liberty]

It doesn't make sense to use an FCD expecting .451 on bullets that are .452+ and soft enough to swage rather than jam the die and press. What you can do to help ensure chambering is to use that FCD sizing ring in the Bulge Buster, which can do .45 ACP as well as .40 S&W. But for loading lead in general, you need a different brand of crimp die. I use Redding carbide.

[RH45]

After having some older brass "spring back" and the bullets pretty much fell in to the cases, I pulled the guts out of mine and only use it as a push through die to straighten the brass, before reloading.

[wide45]

I used it to load cheap 255gr bullets. They would often bulge on seating, and the FCD insured they would chamber.

Good accuracy, no leading, no loose bullets. If I was still running that load, I'd be using the FCD.

I will not use the FCD on plated or jacketed.

Edited December 23, 2013 by wide45

[pdg45acp]

The 40 S&W LFCD ring in it's base is designed to pass a .400" diameter copper jacketed bullet and 2X the thickness of the brass.

A .401" lead bullet will get swaged to .400"

That could be a problem with soft lead because you have just lost .001" of lead to grab the rifling

However, if you cast them real hard like SARCO 10 or more, you won't notice the lost .001" diameter

[anachronism]

Hard cast bullets are responsible for more barrel leading than soft bullets are.

[grouptherapy]

Well I am target loading SNS Casting 230 LRN. Three different head stamps. Speer, Blazer, and Federal. Loaded 20 Fed and 20 Speer. All are hitting the ring in the FCD. Some harder than others. I am chamber checking and hardly any are falling in flush before or after crimping. I am barely flaring the mouth to the point at first it was shaving. Most loads after FCD check ok after slightly eased down with a finger. Usually does not fall out unless I tap it out on my palm. Not a tight bind but not anything like my 9s or 40s. They fall in and out of the checker. The 45 brass after cleaned and sized fell in and out of the checker but after loading not so easy. Bullets mike at 452 consistently. Neck tension is prob around 2-3 thousandths tight. Any help greatly appreciated. First time loading 45acp.

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Edited April 10, 2014 by grouptherapy

[jcc7x7]

I use LFC die in my 9, 40 and 45 with both lead and jacketed. Never change the crimp die only change seating die based on bullet vs. desired OAL.

Crimp is always .002 to .003 stays the same.

[grouptherapy]

Thanks JC

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[bowenbuilt]

If you want to see what happens when you re-size a bullet that has been loaded onto a case try this experiment and it will prove to you that brass will spring back and lead bullets do not.

Remove the decapping pin out of your sizing die, run a fully loaded round into the sizing die. Now, if the FCD is a good thing the brass and bullet will be mortally locked together after running the fully loaded round through the very tight sizing die. Once you run the loaded round through the sizer, remove the round and turn it upside down. See what happens. The carbide ring in the FCD does the same thing to a bullet just to a lesser extent. Then you will understand why sizing a bullet inside the case is a very, very bad idea and why all the bullet companies are warning you NOT to use the FCD on their product.

[grouptherapy]

I see your point on springy brass . On the other hand my feed and eject issues went away after FCD except for maybe 2 out of 100. After running my last 150 plus 45acp rounds thru the bulge buster it dropped to one in the whole lot which I think was a short powder charge as it hung on the ejector pin. Of the rounds I chronied..(approx 100) were within 32 FPS. Never seen this consistency until FCD was used. So I can only speak from my own personal experience. Best wishes.

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Edited April 27, 2014 by grouptherapy

[bowenbuilt]

The FCD is nothing but a crutch to correct something else that the loader is doing wrong in the process of reloading. Imagine how many billions of rounds that were loaded before this atrocity came along that worked perfectly. Not only does it reduce the size of an already loaded bullet that can cause leading of a barrel but it also increases the chance of bullet set back by reducing case tension which is dangerous to the shooter or others standing close by.

The FCD will pass most jacketed bullets without effecting them but if you can feel any resistance of the bullet when it passes the carbide sizing ring you are not doing yourself any favors. It would be much better to figure out what you are doing wrong that keeps your ammo from chambering than trying to fix the problem after the round has been loaded. This is the reason for the warnings from bullet manufactures.

[DougCarden]

Lee made the FCD to help his customers who complained about reliability using his lead bullets in semi auto chambers. By using the FCD with his bullets that people casted they could skip the sizing part after casting them, use the alox lube, and using the FCD load the bullets and they would run in their guns. There are going to be some combinations that won't work, but for making oversized bullets fit into the chambers it does what it is supposed to do. Nothing more, nothing less....

DougC

[BillD]

I used the FCD with lead bullets for years. I was very happy with the results, and had no problems with leading or accuracy.

Me too, in .40 and .45 and out of multiple guns. No issues, no keyholing, just ammo that runs and is accurate and doesn't lead my barrel.

[bowenbuilt]

Doug,

You are correct in why he made it but I assure you it has caused much more trouble and kabooms than it has ever or will ever solve. Resizing a bullet that is already in the case was a bad idea from its conception then and is a very, very bad idea today and tomorrow ain't looking to damn good either. People who need this thing need to find out what they are doing that makes their ammunition not work and if it is the size of the bullet, make or buy bullets the correct size, if it is expanded case heads, fix that and then load the ammunition. It is a bad and potentially dangerous idea and it should not be condoned or held up for people who don't realize what they could be getting themselves into. I am not going to say anything else about this subject and have bit my lip so to speak about it on several occasions when I felt like I should have. Bad idea any way you look at it.