AgentSmith Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yes, another "what should I buy" thread. However, I'm hoping to get responses tailored to my specific circumstances. I shoot IDPA with a Glock 34 and steel with a 9mm 1911. I don't have an AR or a shotgun (well, I have a 15-22 for steel and an over-under for trap.) I want to branch out to 3-gun competition and I need to buy my first AR and shotgun. Could you please give me advice based on these considerations: 1) As the title suggests, I live in New Jersey. That means AR barrels need to be unthreaded or have a pinned/welded compensator. Stocks must be fixed or pinned. Mags are limited to 15 rounds. For shotgun, semi-autos can legally hold 6+1 shells max, while pumps can be 15+1. This makes ordering a bit tricky since FFLs are asked to ensure the guns are NJ legal BEFORE they arrive in the state. Also, half the 3-gun matches in these parts are in PA, where competitors won't be bound by these limitations. 2) I can't stand finnicky guns. My Glock and my 92fs never jam, even when they are dirty or are fed crap ammo. Love them. I don't want the frustration of nursing a prima donna AR and shotgun. Part of me wants to buy a Smith ORC with an unthreaded barrel, slap an Aimpoint Pro on it and be done with it. For the shotty, it would be easy for me to order a 24" Nova pump and throw on a +5 extension. If I go this route, the route of least resistance, will I be frustrated with the limitations of my gear once I start to run 3-gun matches? Would it be better for me to wait out the order process of a Jersey legal JP-15 rifle and start with top notch gear? Ditto the shotgun. I see some lower priced guns like the DPMS 3g1, but I have read comments about them being finnicky with ammo and mag loading. Thanks -AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Get what every you want, send it to adco to have the brake pinned on. You can't go wrong with anything from JP though I don't know of any 3 gun in NJ. If you go to PA, just borrow mags and a Shotgun tube out there. Edited October 16, 2013 by Supermoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhawkeyeordnance Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Welcome to the sickness...Is there anyone in your circle that would let you run their gear for a match or two. If so I would ask. There are so many options and while I am not familiar with Jersey I would give the same advice to any new 3 gun shooter. Borrow until you are sure what you want and which class you want to shoot in. If after a match or two you are sure you are in then buy the right long guns for your game. AR15 - most of the shops, JP included, will set you up with a compliant rifle. JP is awesome but not the only game in town. Shotgun - I think you should at least consider a semi auto. Benelli is the first choice of most. An M1 can be purchased for $700 and with a few mods can be a great shotgun. M2 is also a great way to go if you are sod on the 24" barrel but you are looking at $1100 plus for the gun. I have made the middle of the road mistake and would avoid it if you plan on shooting a lot which goes back to shoot a match or two and find out what your appetite is.Message me anytime if you have questions and search for Hawkeye Ordnance or Getting Started in 3 Gun on Youtube for some videos on just that.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Get whatever you want as far as the rifle. Can you at least own disassembled mag parts and assemble them in PA and then disassemble before you return? Since reloading is the second most important skill (but most time consuming) for shotgun (hitting your targets is the first), I'm leaning towards greater capacity with a pump. However, there is incredible reloading speed shown on the interwebz with load two or quad load methods that time used on reloading isn't as bad as I might think. If you're limited to six on the semi-auto, getting your hits become an even bigger concern. Of course if parts are not banned in your state we could be back to the same perspective as your rifle. Keep a longer tube for out of state use and put shorter tube on before you return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyShooter Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 There's no need to go in debt to get good competitive equipment for 3G. There are more than a few ARs that will definitely do the job without the $$$. Colt, DPMS, Yankee Hill to name a few. If you're looking at the JP, consider Lancer as well, both are great rifles. I have a Mosseburg 930 JM model shotgun. I would have gone with the M2 but it was out of my budget. The 930 runs great but you need to pay attention to it. Like bagdrag, I wondering if you can own components for the mags and mag tubes and assemble them at the matches. If so the magpul and lancer mags dissassemble very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 I suspect you can't just own the components since the state wants you to permanently stake your mags to 15. Not sure how that works with tubes. I'll ask around though. That would be cool if legal. My circle consists of IDPA and steel shooters. We live in suburbia, with indoor ranges that are limited to pistol-caliber carbines at short distances. Three gun will require a hike downstate or across the border, so I'm not going to have any 3-gun friends until I show up and start shooting. When I started in IDPA, I just read closely on the Interwebz and got what appeared to be the most popular setup at the time, a Glock 34 with a fiber-optic front and a drop-in Vanek trigger. It worked out great and I haven't had to upgrade my gear. That is, of course, a much less-expensive proposition than a popular 3-gun setup. When I mentioned the JP-15, it is just a rifle that a newbie can safely pick out and and easily order in a compliant configuration. I would like to hear of other semi-custom shops that offer similar rifles, prices and ease of selection, especially if they have a quicker turnaround time. Mark, what did you mean by the "middle of the road mistake?" Bagdrag, that's kindof what I was thinking about the pump. I can get a high capacity without having to worry about the tube limit situation. It also sounds like the Nova is very fast to reload and perhaps could save some seconds that way. Is the M2 as reliable as a pump? One guys brings a Benelli and another a Remington Tac4 to knockdown steel nights. They both seem to get jammed up pretty regularly, but maybe they just aren't maintaining them well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If it's an M2 Tactical, then the springs might be too stout to run target loads. Usually guys in 3-gun use an M2 Field and can run target loads through them. I make do with a 930 SPX re-made without the ghost rings and a 24" non-ported turkey barrel. Find out about the parts thing. Not sure if you have an online forum similar to Calguns.net here in CA that could provide reference to legalities of parts ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Come one out to our USPSA matches, we have quite a few 3gunners around to talk to in person, I suspect part of the problem you are having is limiting yourself to the relatively small IDPA NJ scene, Edited October 17, 2013 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbinster Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You may not have mag parts that can be expanded when out of state. All mags must be permanently pinned or blocked to 15 rounds max. That said, you can order all the non-compliant stuff you want if it is shipped directly to an FFL who then makes it compliant before they let you take possession of it. If yours does not do this get back with me as I know of several that will do that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) You may not have mag parts that can be expanded when out of state. All mags must be permanently pinned or blocked to 15 rounds max. That said, you can order all the non-compliant stuff you want if it is shipped directly to an FFL who then makes it compliant before they let you take possession of it. If yours does not do this get back with me as I know of several that will do that for you. So parts ownership (constructive possession) is explicitly a no-no in NJ? For Cali constructive possession of NFA parts is a no-no (but that's Federal anyways AFAIK), however mag parts and other gun parts are not banned (no constructive possesion) for now although newly signed legislation has put magazine parts up in the air. Starting next year, a set of parts for a complete magazine is likely illegal but I'm not sure about wear and tear parts like followers and springs. Edited October 17, 2013 by bagdrag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My understanding is that there is no constructive possession regarding mags in NJ. It is not called out in the law like it is for assault weapons. 2C39-1(y)"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5f "An assault firearm also means a part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person." But, considering the courts have said "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril". I would not want to be the test case for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Additionally the AG guidelines say that magazines have to permanently modified to 15rd in a way that can not be reverted, so you can't just have a kit of parts that you take on and off. I guess extended base pads might be a gray area, but with NJ you really take your freedom in your own hands when you screw around with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbinster Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Remember here in the people's republic of NJ, handguns are totally illegal except by specific exemptions. If what you want to do is not spelled out in an exemption then it is not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Additionally the AG guidelines say that magazines have to permanently modified to 15rd in a way that can not be reverted, so you can't just have a kit of parts that you take on and off. I guess extended base pads might be a gray area, but with NJ you really take your freedom in your own hands when you screw around with this. Except in some states like CA, disassembled parts are not magazines so there is no magazine to permanently modify. I'm just wondering if NJ is the same way or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Assume it isn't, everything here is as broken and unfriendly as it can be. The best NJ policy is to assume the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten-X Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 For the shotgun I don't think you give much up by running a pump. The supernova is a beautiful shotgun to run. If you shoot 3 Gun nation close stages and classifiers it will be a disadvantage to pump - short and fast stages. If you like the bigger outlaw matches it doesnt hurt much at all on a 40-60 sec stage to shuck the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 You want reliable? Glock Benelli M2 Stag Arms 3G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rep70 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Get what every you want, send it to adco to have the brake pinned on. You can't go wrong with anything from JP though I don't know of any 3 gun in NJ. If you go to PA, just borrow mags and a Shotgun tube out there. Just a thought if you will shoot most of your matches in PA. Do you have a friend or family member in that state you could simply leave your high cap mags and shotgun tube with between matches. The tube is quick to put on and take off, and mags easy to leave behind before heading home to N.J. You would have your compliant parts for home for dry fire and locale matches. Edited October 21, 2013 by rep70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now