Tiger Valley / CavArms match report

As with all first time matches there were some monkey wrenches thrown in but WOW! there were lots of targets to shoot at (and forget to shoot) and the props and ranges(less rain) were set up nicely.

Next year they need to get the classes lined up better. (Open, tacticle, limitted, sweet mother of pearl all this crap get heavy as hell with 10 pounds boots on.... trooper)

Also the minor adjustments (max range changed from 100 to 300 yards. bearly noticable) should be kept to a minimum.

Would like to go back next year. Hope to see improvements in the admin section but again WOW on the stages. Just a boat load of fun.

Thank you so much to all the people that help make the match happen. You did a ton of work and it made it fun for many of us. See you next year.

TJ

Zak Smith · November 16, 2004

The courses of fire were very fun and shooting/scoring/resetting went well but to much down time before the next shooter.

I think this is as much the shooters' fault as the ROs'. More RO's would have worked better, but the whole RO crew deserve a lot of credit for running this with little prior experience. I witnessed a lot of shooters standing around jaw-jacking when they could have been getting ready, fixing the stage, taping/resetting, etc. We got tired of that and defected into our own little mini squad. With four people, everyone working all the time, we flew through the stages on Sunday.

My take is that if people wanted to be done by 2pm on Sunday and/or avoid the rain, they should have gotten their squad squared away and blown through those stages.

-z

kurtm · November 16, 2004

Part of having a smoooth running match falls to the shooters. There is only so much a single R.O. and helper can do. Zak is ABSOLUTELY right! Especially in 3-gun where stage reset takes even a bit longer than usual. I don't know how many times I have been called as the next shooter, when I am still down range taping, because no one else was doing it! Now I know most folks don't "ghost", and a big match is the only time we get to see some of our shooting friends, but please remember to talk, taping

This match sounds fun and if work doesn't get in the way next year I will be there. KURTM

PacMan · November 16, 2004

The courses of fire were very fun and shooting/scoring/resetting went well but to much down time before the next shooter.

I think this is as much the shooters' fault as the ROs'. More RO's would have worked better, but the whole RO crew deserve a lot of credit for running this with little prior experience. I witnessed a lot of shooters standing around jaw-jacking when they could have been getting ready, fixing the stage, taping/resetting, etc. We got tired of that and defected into our own little mini squad. With four people, everyone working all the time, we flew through the stages on Sunday.

My take is that if people wanted to be done by 2pm on Sunday and/or avoid the rain, they should have gotten their squad squared away and blown through those stages.

-z

This happens at local level too, so I'm not at all surprised. The RO's really need to get on each squad's case to put enough helpers out there.

Zak Smith · November 16, 2004

This happens at local level too, so I'm not at all surprised. The RO's really need to get on each squad's case to put enough helpers out there.

To motivate the shooters, Shawn could say, "If you don't finish a stage by 2pm Sunday, you zero it."

-z

Wakal · November 16, 2004

In their defense, there were a lot of folks who had never shot a match before. Some gentle (or not-so-gentle) direction would have helped a lot. Not every squad was like Squad 4, the evil San Angelo Goons (plus Chris ).

I really liked the "30 clay target" stage. I enjoyed FINALLY getting to wind out my drum-fed auto-loading destructive device on a stage.

And I'm in awe that even though I had to reload ONCE (from the 20-round drum to the 10-round stick mag) compared to...well, lots...James Darst was only two seconds (a mere two seconds) behind me. Whew...that is a lot of fast four-round loading

Alex

Zak Smith · November 16, 2004

It was possible to shoot many doubles on Shotgunnery.

-z

Wakal · November 16, 2004

If you used real shotgun loads (say, three and three quarter dram seven and a halves), you could get triples.

Just sayin'.

I had rounds left over in my ten-round magazine

Alex

gl · November 17, 2004

RESULTS???????????????????????????????

Cactustactical · November 18, 2004

Guy,

the results could be a while, there were issues with the scoring software. After the second attempt, it was getting late and most everyone left. Hopefully, the results will be posted soon.

Zak Smith · November 18, 2004

On the way home I noted that I could score the match with a calculator and a couple sheets of graph paper in an hour or two.

-z

Cactustactical · November 19, 2004

Zak,

you probably should have stayed and helped score then.

Wakal · November 19, 2004

There were issues with the actual SCORES, not just the scoring. For example, they stated that each target had to have at least one "A" or at least two hits anywhere on paper. Since the targets were a mix of IDPA and USPSA targets, the A zone varied, but that is another complaint.

On my squad, if you only had one non-A hit, you got a "1" in the "Failure to nutralized" (plus five seconds) column. If you had no hits on paper, you got a "1" in the "failure to hit" column (plus ten seconds) column.

During the "milling around waiting for scores" phase, I learned that some squads were marking their score sheets for a no-hit target with BOTH a plus-ten and two plus-5's (plus 20 seconds).

The solution, at least as I overheard Trent say as he went by, was to remove ALL the plus-ten penalties, period.

Not quite right...close, but not quite...

The actual winner of this match was probably still James Darst (Open). However, the rest of the top shooters...no idea who really came in second through tenth or so. And I doubt we ever will know for sure.

But it was a HELL OF A FUN MATCH, darn it, and I'll come back to shoot it next year

Alex

Cactustactical · November 19, 2004

We had an RO that ended up on a number of our stages who was assessing the 5 second and 10 second penalties for a no hit on a target. Thankfully, he was corrected late on Sunday.

The second round of scoring had Jimmy Holdsworth winning Open. I don't remember who was second and third at that point.

When it is all said and done, Matt Burkett will probably end up winning. He shot a solid match.

Garryowen · November 19, 2004

The Match….where to begin…

Well for starters I should start with an apology to everyone who showed up. This match started out as Tiger Valley’s match and we were just the major sponsors, well things came up with Tiger Valley that put the match in jeopardy of being called off or falling to us to take over. I figured it couldn’t be that hard, so off we went with a little over a month before the match was scheduled. I went into this match with a lot of Ignorance and plain old naiveté. I have helped with a lot of matches (big ones even), so when it came time to set up stages and pound in stakes, I think I did pretty good, but I have never had to deal with all the little details that you never see in a match (at least one that is well run).

The scoring was for a lack of a better word was “f*#ked”. We (meaning “I”) put people in charge of things they were not ready to handle on their own and when it started to look “hinky”, instead of pulling the plug, I figured it would work itself out. Down deep I knew better, but to be frank, I was too overwhelmed to make the right decisions. We where never very happy with the scoring system and when it became our match we tried to change a lot of things into more of a “normal” format. The fellow with the scoring program told us that we had to keep certain elements of it or else the scoring program would not work. One of these elements was the penalties. Again when things started to look goofy I should have said “NO” and used a spreadsheet to track the scores (as I ended up doing anyways). I have taken all of the white score sheets and manually entered them into excel and used it to come up with what is as close to a true outcome as we are going to ever get out of this years match. Some of the scores shocked me and I called people I knew who shot with some of the people in question to verify the results. A lot of shooters are not used to having to transition between guns during a course of fire and also retaing a “hot” pistol with a “Race Holster” was a process that I know cost some shooters time.

This match was set up with stages that the Cav Arms staff thought would be cool and what we have talked about with some fellow shooters, but given how we shoot, we paid very little attention laying out the stages in a “traditional” manner. Also the classes we came up with were “odd”. Again, the match was made for “Trooper” class and the other 2 classes where put on as an after thought. Next year we plan to do more with the Trooper class and will add a Tactical Scope class. Some people did not like the manner in which prizes were awarded. The random system we used is one we ran by all of our sponsors and to be honest they all thought it was a great idea. Also with how the scoring was FUBAR, if we had done it any other way, we would have been in BIG TROUBLE. Next year we will again use this method, but will most likely add some sort of cash pay-back to the top shooters.

The match staff (and especially the RO’s) I think did a great job all things considered and most of the shooters where very understanding and helpful. I will say this, next year any shooter who throws a tantrum (or their gear) will be given a penalty for “Un-sportsmanlike Conduct” or just asked to go home. This behavior is not only childish, but also potentially unsafe. On that note I would also like to apologies for my conduct. I am a very sarcastic person and most people find me funny, but with the stress of a match sliding down hill with foul weather and bizarre scoring, some of my jokes might not have been received in the manner they were intended and for that I an truly sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

As of right now, we are not sure who will “own” the match next year (Tiger Valley or Cav Arms), but I have spoken with the owner of Tiger Valley and we are sure of this, it will be on again next year and we hope for it to be bigger and better. The Texas State 3-Gun folks have offered to help us out next year (as well as some other locals), we also read all the comment cards and will use them as our guide to make this a match everyone will enjoy.

**Note...due to weather, Stage 2 was thrown out. Also, several shooters did not shoot on Sunday, so they were given the "max" (500 sec.) for each stage they missed**

1-- 0329.34 Holdsworth, Jim-- 1st Open

2-- 0340.04 Darst, James-- 2nd Open

3-- 0350.21 Burkett, Matt-- 3rd Open

4-- 0373.29 Wakal, Alex-- 4th Open

5-- 0420.89 Powe, Bill-- 5th Open

6-- 0440.27 Samuel, Alan-- 1st Trooper

7-- 0474.32 Devine, Lonnie-- 1st Limited

8-- 0476.95 Mowery, Gary-- 2nd Limited

9-- 0494.93 Gentry, Ty-- open

10-- 0499.80 Barr, Matt-- open

11-- 0501.12 Kelly, Pat-- open

12-- 0515.75 McCoy, Kelly-- open

13-- 0522.14 Harris, Mike-- 3rd Limited

14-- 0547.50 Deaton, Douglas-- 4th Limited

15-- 0571.14 McKinney, Michael-- 5th Limited

16-- 0581.05 Compton, Jerry-- limited

17-- 0601.83 Bedingfield, Hugh-- open

18-- 0604.86 Carpentier, Pete-- open

19-- 0614.17 Stephens, Scott-- limited

20-- 0616.38 Byrom, Bill-- open

21-- 0644.89 Hodge, Bob-- limited

22-- 0645.40 Long, Glen-- limited

23-- 0648.75 Baker, Cary-- open

24-- 0656.72 Brandt, David-- open

25-- 0672.45 Kuhn, Mell-- limited

26-- 0678.80 Smith, Zak-- limited

27-- 0679.29 Colasanto, Dan-- open

28-- 0682.28 Wong, Tommy-- open

29-- 0690.62 Bielby, Jeffery-- open

30-- 0718.23 Pointer, Glenn-- limited

31-- 0744.34 Williams, Wesley-- limited

32-- 0774.68 Clayton, Grant-- limited

33-- 0786.08 Boiko, Scott-- open

34-- 0817.45 McKenzie, Jerry-- open (Middle Man)

35-- 0831.36 Nealon, Shawn-- 2nd Trooper

36-- 0837.85 Head, Leonard-- limited

37-- 0853.19 Phagan, Russell-- 3rd Trooper

38-- 0889.19 Taylor, Grayson-- open

39-- 0907.91 Stewart, Zed-- 4th Trooper

40-- 0955.59 Dillon, Tim-- 5th Trooper

41-- 0959.32 Marquis, Jim-- limited

42-- 1040.81 McNally, John-- limited

43-- 1056.64 Hindman, Fred-- open

44-- 1060.61 True, Greg-- open

45-- 1155.79 Orletski, Brad-- trooper

46-- 1202.71 Nelson, Pete-- open

47-- 1239.64 DeRidder, Paul-- limited

48-- 1262.46 Guinther, Chad-- limited

49-- 1263.69 Meador, Trey-- trooper

50-- 1279.38 Caulder, KC-- trooper

51-- 1302.51 Martinez, Michael-- limited

52-- 1316.38 Conn, Jeremy-- open

53-- 1334.39 Cook, Jeff-- open

54-- 1348.45 Spencer, Kent-- open

55-- 1375.56 Ganz, Will-- limited

56-- 1375.98 Clark, Robert-- limited

57-- 1405.91 Turner, Tom-- open

58-- 1418.26 Severns, Curtis-- open

59-- 1583.73 Jing, Tim-- trooper

60-- 1751.14 Sacks, Ronald-- limited

61-- 1754.65 Bui, Thomas-- trooper

62-- 1970.19 Lau, Vincent-- limited

63-- 2016.83 Holman, Kevin-- Snake Bite

64-- 2108.52 Jones, Bryan-- limited

65-- 2146.08 Hill, Benny-- open

66-- 2612.10 Caulder Sami-- 1st Junior

67-- 2760.43 Swinton, Bret -- open

I would also like to put out a HUGE THANKE YOU to the sponsors:

Cavalry Arms Corp

T.I.G.E.R. Valley (972-530-6510)

Spec Ops

LaRue Tactical

Brownell's

Falcon Industries (Ergo Grip)

Trijicon

Armalite

DPMS

AMEETEC

Practical Tactical

Tactical Resposne

Lightfighter

XS Sights

Crimson Trace (Laser Grips)

SWAT Magazine

and a special Thanks to Bret Swinton...The Plumber of DOOM

an extra special Thanks to Lone Star out of Plano Tx. They stepped up and did the transfers for all the CAV-15 lowers and saved the day

Wakal · November 19, 2004

Fourth...cool!

Would you post the stage overalls, too? And not just because I factored Stage Nine

Alex

Garryowen · November 19, 2004

Almost forgot...

We did not get/recieve any of the entry fee's or entry forms (actually never even saw them), so if you are owed any kind of refund for the side match or anything like that, you need to contact Tiger Valley (www.tigervalley.com). If you are on the abovce list above (even if you didn't finish the match) and did not get your CAV-15 lower reciever, please send us a FFL and your info and we'll get one mailed out to you ASAP...

ScottS · November 19, 2004

Shawn

As far as I'm concerned there is no need for an apology. You guys did damn fine job on the match. Nobody gets it right the first time out, but you guys got the important stuff right. Great facility, Great RO's, Non "Traditional" stages, high round count, hot transitions and FUNctional props. The rain & MUD were beyond your control (I think) and just added to the stages. I'll shoot this match next year........ rain or shine, prize table or not, scored or not.

Thanks Shawn, Russell,.Brad, T.J, Trent and all others that made this happen!!

Regards Scott

Cactustactical · November 19, 2004

Shawn,

the lengthy apology is unnecessary. Any first time match has it's share of kinks that showup. You never know how to run a match and what all it involves until you do so.

Anyway, it was almost worth the time and money just to go and watch people attempt to walk around as they gathered more and more mud on their shoes with each careful step. young Wes was 4 inches taller by the time he made it to the end of the road down to stage 5. The stuff was incredible how it stuck to itself with each step.

MattBurkett · November 19, 2004

Okay, would you please state what stages were kept vs. thrown out also, please list how the penalties were finally applied.

Thanks,

Matt

EricW · November 20, 2004

Gary,

We had some trials and tribulations with the scoring of the Inland Empire 3 gun match. Afterward, I came up with an Excel spreadsheet that takes most of the work out of the process. Let me know if you'd like to take a peek at it.

E

Wakal · November 21, 2004

Looks like Tiger Valley's web site is down, but...I'd still like to see stage results. As well as the information (stages thrown out, final word on penalties assessed) that Matt asked for.

I had a great time, and find it amusing that I gave up 55 seconds on the first (three hundred yard "surprise, we lied about the 100-yard max") stage and still finished as high as I did. But I'd like to see the stages...please...pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease...

Alex

Tiger Valley / CavArms match report

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