DrLove Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 so I'm buying a new gun (or at least decided on buying a new open gun). It's going to be a 2011 of course. I have decided on everything in the gun except one. Do I buy it in 38S or 9mm. I reload both but all my 2011s are in 38S. I have friends who run 9mm major and claim they have no issues whatsoever. Others tell me just to stick to what I know and order it in 38S. I'm very confused. If everything is the same, I would have ordered it in 9mm because of the availability of brass of course. But I'm worried on buying a new problem for myself since I already have 38 supers that work. what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 If you already have 38 mags/brass why not stick with 38? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I would say that 90% of the GM and M open shooters that I shoot with use 38Sxxx. I prefer 38Sxxx, for what it's worth. But the fact that you are setup for super makes it a clear choice. The big difference between a 9 shooter and a Super shooter is what they do when the stage is complete... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLove Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 If you already have 38 mags/brass why not stick with 38? Brass is getting to hard to find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_Seehawer Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Stick with 38. 9mm brass can be junk, ie steel cased. A buddy of mine has been dealing with this and it kills me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 The super. Hands down. You have the mags, you have all the gear, you have a load, you have the powder (and there are quite a few more powders for super than 9). If yer just wanting to try something new and maybe tinker with it, then buy the 9... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike g35 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I like my 9's. They run great and they're cheap to shoot. I don't want to go through a stage picking up brass after shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I'd vote for 9 but you do have the setup for Super which, I'm sure, complicates your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax3D Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I would say that 90% of the GM and M open shooters that I shoot with use 38Sxxx. I prefer 38Sxxx, for what it's worth. But the fact that you are setup for super makes it a clear choice. And the big-name GM's are sponsored an probably getting brass/ammo for free, so that's not really an argument. The mags are not an argument either. The 9mm and 38S mags are the same, except for a spacer for 9mm. (If you want to use a spacer, that is. You could just as easily load the 9mm to a longer OAL and still use the 38S mags with no spacer.) There seems to be this persistent myth that 38S is better than 9mm for Open. That may have been true years ago when the power factor was still 175 and there were fewer powders that could make major, but not any longer. Improvments in powders and the lowering of the power factor have made it fairly easy to make major with a 9mm. Right now, with reloading supplies being scarce because of reactions to shootings like Newtown or the D.C. Navy yard, it's just MUCH easier to get your hands on 9mm brass, and it's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I would say that 90% of the GM and M open shooters that I shoot with use 38Sxxx. I prefer 38Sxxx, for what it's worth. But the fact that you are setup for super makes it a clear choice. And the big-name GM's are sponsored an probably getting brass/ammo for free, so that's not really an argument. The mags are not an argument either. The 9mm and 38S mags are the same, except for a spacer for 9mm. (If you want to use a spacer, that is. You could just as easily load the 9mm to a longer OAL and still use the 38S mags with no spacer.) There seems to be this persistent myth that 38S is better than 9mm for Open. That may have been true years ago when the power factor was still 175 and there were fewer powders that could make major, but not any longer. Improvments in powders and the lowering of the power factor have made it fairly easy to make major with a 9mm. Right now, with reloading supplies being scarce because of reactions to shootings like Newtown or the D.C. Navy yard, it's just MUCH easier to get your hands on 9mm brass, and it's cheaper. I would say that 90% of the GM and M open shooters that I shoot with use 38Sxxx. I prefer 38Sxxx, for what it's worth. But the fact that you are setup for super makes it a clear choice. And the big-name GM's are sponsored an probably getting brass/ammo for free, so that's not really an argument. The mags are not an argument either. The 9mm and 38S mags are the same, except for a spacer for 9mm. (If you want to use a spacer, that is. You could just as easily load the 9mm to a longer OAL and still use the 38S mags with no spacer.) There seems to be this persistent myth that 38S is better than 9mm for Open. That may have been true years ago when the power factor was still 175 and there were fewer powders that could make major, but not any longer. Improvments in powders and the lowering of the power factor have made it fairly easy to make major with a 9mm. Right now, with reloading supplies being scarce because of reactions to shootings like Newtown or the D.C. Navy yard, it's just MUCH easier to get your hands on 9mm brass, and it's cheaper. I don't see where StraightUp_OG mentioned "big-name" GMs....he just said 90% of the M and GM shooters he shoots with are using a 38S/SC. It's sort of funny that you call it a "myth", but if reloading components were free, you know that virtually everybody would be shooting some variation of 38S/SC/TJ in Open. Right there you can figure out which is "better". I'm a GM and I pay for all my brass, bullets, powder, and primers...and most others do as well. I've had very similar Open guns in both 9 Major, and 38SC, and I just sold the 9 Major gun. I had 25lbs of SP-2, the Holy Grail of 9 Major powders, and sold that before selling the 9 Major gun. Why? 9 Major simply doesn't work as well for me. I didn't like the recoil impulse, or dot tracking nearly as much as my 38SC guns (several variations, so it's not entirely setup specific). Yes, it's certainly possible to make Major with 9, using a variety of different powders, but in the past five years or so, the only Open guns I've seen go up in smoke have been 9 Major guns. One of them was one of the biggest proponents of 9 Major, and a well-known GM. I've run the data on Quick Load, and many common 9 Major loads are in the 50K+ PSI range. The funny thing is that 38SC is cheaper for me. I get back almost 100% of my brass during practice, and probably at least 75% at most local matches. At major matches, I consider lost brass the cost of doing business, and worst case, it's only $40-50 worth of cases compared with $15-20 if I was using once-fired 9mm. I won't reuse 9 Major brass, and I get 5-6 uses out of 38SC easily....saves me money. I've also been buying a lot of "once-fired" 9mm brass for Minor this past year, and I've found lots that definitely wasn't once-fired, which would worry me enough that I'd still buy new 9mm for major matches....no price difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Run 9mm here because it's easier and cheaper to get brass and I have no intention of crawling around searching for every piece of brass. I shoot and leave it or maybe pick up some of everything after the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Your case is the only one where I would say to go with a 38. I love 9MAJOR. It helps that I have a gun that runs perfect with it. At our locals we shoot on grass and gravel and a lot of brass gets lost. I am very happy to work a few big matches a year and get enough 9mm brass to last all season without fretting over losing most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) And it's only a matter of time until nationals gets won with a 9mm. Then 38 brass will be cheap because it will be obsolete. Edited September 27, 2013 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Some of the guys I shoot with are "Big Names" because it is Rio (Nils, Rob, Eddie, Nick) but I can tell you that the sponsorships that they have are limited. In talking to a "Namer" I asked him about brass and he only gets 2k per year from Starline as a part of his sponsorship. This is no where near enough considering his match schedule. Almost all of it is left on the ground at the big matches so he is, in fact, buying most of his own stuff and he is a "Big Name". He still chooses Super over 9 because of some of the same reasons G-Man Bart gave. Another "Big Name" Open shooter that I shoot with told me that even if none of his brass was given to him he would still stay with Super because of his preferences and his subjective measure on it's performance. We can argue the merits but that has been done to death. In the end it is personal preference. My preference is Super and for me it is the superior choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I started shooting open with a 9mm pistol and had reliability issues. I switched to 38SC for a while and then switched back to 9mm. Shooting them side by side, I shot the 38SC faster than the 9. The difference wasn't night and day but it was noticeable. If I was on a mission to climb the classification ladder where every percent counts, there is no question I would have stayed with the SC. (Besides, loaded 38SC rounds look so much cooler than 9mm...) I ended up selling the 38SC pistols and shoot 9mm now. Its simply cheaper for me. I use the slowest powders that use the biggest powder charges available and reload the cases anywhere from 3-7 times before shooting them in a match and let them lay. My brass costs anywhere from .005 to .01 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLove Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 so guys, I currently shoot and reload 38 super not super comp. Have you really seen a difference between both? Never used SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) With SC the main difference is the Rim. Super is a semi-rimmed cartridge SC is rimless so it tends to stack better in the mags. Edited September 27, 2013 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLove Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 other than that is there any advantage for SC? Also, where can you get the SC brass from?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) Dr. you can get 38 SC from Starline brass. 38 SC also has a stronger case wall. Pardon me, it's been a long day 9x23 SC has a thicker case wall. But if you want I have a nice 9MM open for sale in the classifieds!!! Edited September 27, 2013 by PINMAN44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLove Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dr. you can get 38 SC from Starline brass. 38 SC also has a stronger case wall. Pardon me, it's been a long day 9x23 SC has a thicker case wall. But if you want I have a nice 9MM open for sale in the classifieds!!! thank pinman. have my head set for a very fancy SVI:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dr. you can get 38 SC from Starline brass. 38 SC also has a stronger case wall. Pardon me, it's been a long day 9x23 SC has a thicker case wall. But if you want I have a nice 9MM open for sale in the classifieds!!! thank pinman. have my head set for a very fancy SVI:) =) SV makes a great gun!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I shot a lot of straight super, works great and you can reload it forever. Super doesn't come off the mag as smooth as SC and you lose 1round. But if you have it, there is no reason not to use it. I switch to 9mm because I got tired of picking up brass. 9 does not shoot as nice as super and does not eject as reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Some of the guys I shoot with are "Big Names" because it is Rio I think we get that you shoot at Rio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Some of the guys I shoot with are "Big Names" because it is Rio I think we get that you shoot at Rio! OK sorry to rub you the wrong way. I am proud of my club and my peeps. But since you seem to take umbrage I will refrain from the reference from this point. Seems a tad petty to make of a point of it but it will be as it is... Edited September 28, 2013 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I have both Prefer 9mm for 3-gun/minor loads, but shoots pretty well with major. When shooting major, will only use once-fired Winchester brass, and usually leave it for the other brass rats. Prefer .38 Supercomp for major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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