Nuke8401 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Vlad, you said the type of terrain dictated how things need to be reset, I'm sorry but you're wrong. The MD/RM dictates where targets should be set, and if terrain doesn't allow for rapid reset then don't put the targets there, its really simple. Just because you have valleys and gulleys and mountains doesn't mean targets should be put on them, across them, or in them. I alluded to this earlier, what you and Kurt are indirectly saying is that you should let a method of reset dictate the stage design and limit what you can do on a given range with given resources. I don't understand that logic, it seems constricting. Again, I'm not sure where the notion of "you just can't accept it can be done better" is coming from, seeing I'm in full agreement that there is space for improvement. I find it odd that the two of you are taking the stance that there is only one true way of fixing a problem. It narrows the actual space of solutions. As far as I can determine the position is that there is ONLY ONE SINGLE TRUE WAY of fixing the issue of target calling, it is the same single way used for 100 years, and there is no room for a better newer solution. I truly respect the experience you guys have, but this position seems more like religion then a solution. It seems to me to be just as narrowly locked into a single way of thinking as I'm being accused of. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 come shoot the Nordic Rifle Championships, August 22-24, 2014 Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 come shoot the Nordic Rifle Championships, August 22-24, 2014 Trapr Are you paying? I can PM you my address if you are sending me tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 see there we go again looking for the easy way!! hope to see you there, it would be worth the trip trust me. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Vlad, you said the type of terrain dictated how things need to be reset, I'm sorry but you're wrong. The MD/RM dictates where targets should be set, and if terrain doesn't allow for rapid reset then don't put the targets there, its really simple. Just because you have valleys and gulleys and mountains doesn't mean targets should be put on them, across them, or in them. I alluded to this earlier, what you and Kurt are indirectly saying is that you should let a method of reset dictate the stage design and limit what you can do on a given range with given resources. I don't understand that logic, it seems constricting. Again, I'm not sure where the notion of "you just can't accept it can be done better" is coming from, seeing I'm in full agreement that there is space for improvement. I find it odd that the two of you are taking the stance that there is only one true way of fixing a problem. It narrows the actual space of solutions. As far as I can determine the position is that there is ONLY ONE SINGLE TRUE WAY of fixing the issue of target calling, it is the same single way used for 100 years, and there is no room for a better newer solution. I truly respect the experience you guys have, but this position seems more like religion then a solution. It seems to me to be just as narrowly locked into a single way of thinking as I'm being accused of. I think what they are getting at is that everything else that has been tried has to some degree or another failed. gravity is pretty reliable and if there is a question after the shooter has run the stage as to weather a falling plate was hit or is malfunctioning it can easily be checked with a calibration rifle (just like we do with pistol poppers). I'm sure eventually a new system will be worked out that is reliable, easily testable and affordable enough to replace a falling plate and that will be great, but right now there isn't one. As for letting the limits of the equipment limit your stage designs, that's just part of stage design, and with the resettable plates that use a pull cord there is a falling plate solution that doesn't require any more work or time to reset than a 25yd popper. I have not been at this game nearly as long as most on this thread but I did spend a week calling hits on a set of flash targets trying to see a thin sliver of orange appear for a fraction of a second and watching shooters engage the same target over, it was one of the worst experiences in my shooting life. I got more heart burn over trying to make sure I called every hit a shooter earned then I ever have issuing DQ. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Interesting turn of events as far as target systems go. It seems all you guys were right about hi tech target systems. You can catch up on it in the Fallen Brethren thread in 3-gun matches. I stand absolutely corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Interesting turn of events as far as target systems go. It seems all you guys were right about hi tech target systems. You can catch up on it in the Fallen Brethren thread in 3-gun matches. I stand absolutely corrected Concerning long range targets; looking at the comments from several of the bigger 2013 matches it looks like the shooter’s opinions/comments post match are influenced by a combination of targets used and how the ROs/match staff maintained, calibrated, called(or did not call) hits on those targets. So since the perfect long range target system seems to not have been invented yet, the match staff must compensate to ensure as fair a match as possible is provided for each shooter. Hopefully the MDs/RMs/ROs read the good and bad comments from their matches and if possible make changes in equipment and procedures to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panic Flinch Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Im not a target expert or competent stage planner, but I must say I did like the swinging flasher MGM type rifle targets. Positive feedback...no argument necessary for the most part. That is if the RO is watching the target you are shooting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I guess its OK to FU a call as long as its in the shooters benefit, screw all the other shooters that get cheated from it!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I guess its OK to FU a call as long as its in the shooters benefit, screw all the other shooters that get cheated from it!! Trapr You mean like when the ROs decided to start calling hits on LaRues that weren't falling on the second day, after I had to bludgeon them into the dirt on the first day? Yeah, that was cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 exactly Austin!! someone on here said that most of the miscalls from long range targets were done in the shooters favor and so that must make it OK,............. to screw all the other shooters that are competing against that shooter. personally a larue target is a good falling target that is being used improperly, it should be calibrated everyday and have a barrier to allow only hits on the fallling plate that make it fall, ie much like a popper won't fall from marginal hits outside the scoring area, but the scoring area is well defined and known to most all experienced shooters. Sorry to hear about your LaRue dilemma, having suffered thru one myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I say....invent a laser hit detection device. Until then use paint, quick lime, or falling steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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