Returning to IPSC with my Glocks. Need advice!

[Brutus]

First post here.

I used to shoot Practical Pistol in the UK 20 years ago with a compensated 38 super 1911 and Aimpoint. Quite something back then. The UK Government then banned handguns completely in 1997 and that was the end of our fun.

Now I live in Switzerland where gun laws are the most liberal in Europe and over the last few years have built up a nice collection of rifles, shotguns and handguns.

I'd love to get back into Practical Pistol. Over here it's IPSC and I have familiarised myself with the principles of each division. Right now all I have is production Glocks, but I'm keen to get shooting again in whatever division I can compete in. The question is, with which gun?

I have 3 Glocks, all Gen 4s. A G23, G20 and G21. The G23 is too compact even though I love shooting it, which leaves the G20 and G21. Both have the large backstraps as I have big hands which is the main reason I don't have a G17 or G22.

The 2 divisions of interest are Production and Standard. Either the G20 or G21 could make Major in Standard or maybe use reduced loads in the G20 in Production? What do you think?

Finally can I choose any holster make and type in either division? If so what would work well? I am aware of the "behind the hip" rule.

Any information gratefully received.

[Cardinal]

You can use all in Production provided they haven't been altered/modified in any way which would make them illegal.

Or Standard if you want.

You'll probably be the most competitive in standard with the 20, but getting a .40 S&W barrel for it would be cheaper with regards to reloading costs.

Also some mag pads but not sure whats available for the 20 and still make the gun fit the box in Standard. You would be competing against guns with 18 or 19+1 so some pads to get you to atleast 17 are needed IMHO.

Production is a 9mm division but the G23 (with G22 mags) or 20 downloaded could certainly play.

(I've been using a G19 until I get the 17 so don't rule out the 23)

You can use any holster you want (as long as it hold the gun), only restriction is on placement on the body as you noted.

This also sounds like the perfect excuse to get a G17 and use that in PD for a while.

[Brutus]

Thanks Cardinal.

Am I right in saying the only advantage in having the 10mm-40S&W barrel conversion is the cheaper 40 cases? It's all a bit academic as we just don't have your choice of barrels over here.

I would prefer to stay with the G20/21 large frame due to my large hands.

I think I'm going to give the G20 a go. I have access to 180gr plated bullets here which should work OK in the stock Glock barrel. I'll experiment with Major and Minor loads although I guess I'll need a lighter mainspring for Minor?

[Cardinal]

Yes, primarily cheaper cases. you won't be able to pick up your used brass at most major matches. I also have a gen4 G20 and had to import my brass from Germany (I live in Norway) as 10mm is very scarce now. Atleast around here. So I couldn't afford to run the 10mm in IPSC.

For barrels for you Glocks, check out IGB barrels in Austria. http://www.igbaustria.com/

Its also easier to get reloading data for .40 which are appropriate for IPSC. But that isnt a big issue.

Try the 20 in Standard. I don't use my 20 for IPSC so i'm not sure about base pads for mags. I saw some 2 or 3 plus pads somewhere but I suspect they make the gun too tall for the box.

But you can use it as is, just beware you are at a disadvantage capacity wise compared to the STI/SVIs.

For true minor (135ish PF) you would need lighter springs, but any aftermarket springs would make the gun illegal in Production and limit you to Standard. So for Production leave the gun as is and download until you run into problems (soot on cases, poor extraction), then go back up some. But Standard would be simpler.

[Brutus]

Thanks again

I've found a local source of new 10mm brass for CHF 30 per 100. For Switzerland that's pretty good.

[fellas]

regarding magazine length there are aftermarket base pad to use that does no exceed the standard box height and another thing to take in consideration is to change factory sight to warren tactical/sevigny which are the greatest improvement over a glock .

andre

[Brutus]

Cheers Andre, but does the box size rule only apply for IPSC Standard?

Right now it looks like Production may be easier as I cannot find any magwells to fit my G20/21 Gen 4 guns with the large backstrap fitted (which I need).

The DAA Race Master holster looks a fab bit of kit and if these are legal for my chosen division I think I'll get one.

[Mapzter]

Cheers Andre, but does the box size rule only apply for IPSC Standard?

Right now it looks like Production may be easier as I cannot find any magwells to fit my G20/21 Gen 4 guns with the large backstrap fitted (which I need).

The DAA Race Master holster looks a fab bit of kit and if these are legal for my chosen division I think I'll get one.

In IPSC the box only applies to Standard and Classic division. There are no restrictions on holster types in IPSC (apart from that they must be safe, and must be fixed to the belt).

Reading the IPSC Handgun rulebook might be a good idea: Handgun

[Flexmoney]

You don't need a magwell.

[Brutus]

You don't need a magwell.

For standard? Everyone else uses one.

[JimmyZip]

You don't need a magwell.

For standard? Everyone else uses one.

If you practice without it, you may never know that it was holding you back. Which it probably isn't. When you are a B pushing A then maybe. You might be surprised at how well you can do without one on a Glock.

[Jadeslade]

You don't need a magwell. It's a Glock. At most one on medium course, two mag changes on long course. I think someone will be able to provide info on a base pad which will get you to 32, 33, 34 rounds in your gun with just one mag change. And still have the gun fit in the box. DVC and have fun.

[JimmyZip]

I know magwells are good for standard. I was just very surprised that my reload times seem consistent across the board platform to platform, magwell or not.

[fellas]

try a grip plug instead of magwell

[notfast]

Hello Brutus,

I am shooting a G20 with the Glockworx standard grip package. Finger grooves removed, bottom of the trigger guard thinned, single undercut, and silicon carbide applied to grip.

I also have the ZEV Speedfeed magwell. I don't think the magwell helps with my reload speed. If a reload is required, it is usually done running between shooting positions.

What the magwell does do very well is keep my weak hand grip high while shooting. Others who claimed the G20/21 Glocks were too large and hold my pistol, noted how the grip felt good and that the magwell forced their weak hand up under the trigger guard for a firm high grip.

Maybe another reason to consider a magwell.

[Brutus]

Good info notfast. Thank you.

I guess your G20 is a Gen 3? I can't find a Gen 4 magwell that works with the large backstrap fitted.

[notfast]

^{Yes, it is a Gen 3. Sorry. I missed the fact that you have Gen 4 models.}

[Cardinal]

I used a Race master holster with the tanfoglio Stock II I had. With my Glocks I use a simple Kydex holster, for IPSC I have a Blade Tech I bought on Brownells.

And I'm not going back to the racemaster, I prefer the kydex

Don't worry about a magwell, just use the gun as is until you figure things out. Though new sights probably wouldnt be a bad thing.

@fellas, which pads fits the G20 and the box?

I've found some for the 9mm and .40 but the ones for G20 seems big.

With the original low factory sights you only have 11mm to spare as it comes from the factory. Put on taller aftermarket sight and you have even less.

[fellas]

try DAA , Aredondo or Taran Tactical

thanks

[Flexmoney]

You don't need a magwell.

For standard? Everyone else uses one.

Well, not everyone.

Back when I was shooting somewhat competitively, I made GM in Limited without a magwell on my G35. Of course, we don't use magwells in Production...where we have to do 3x as many reloads.

To me, a magwell provides up to 3 levels of functionality.

- Serves as a pommel, to anchor your grip (doesn't sound like you need that)

- Adds weight (probably not much of a benefit for you)

- Provides a funnel of safety to help with "missed" reloads.

Many think that you are faster at reloading with a magwell. What is fastest is nailing the reload with good technique...and never even touching the magwell.

A magwell can let you round the corners a bit, and get a little sloppy with technique, and save a blown reload here and there.

For a frame of reference, I used to run my dryfire PAR time down to 1.55s for a draw-one-reload-one drill. That is about 0.80s each for the draw and the reload. No magwell. When I'd miss, it was because of tension. The tension came from getting sloppy on technique (seeing less).

In IPSC Standard, you will reload maybe 5 times in a local match? If you can cultivate the mindset to really see a solid reload for those 5 times, then you don't need a magwell.

[Cliveb]

Flexmoney makes a very valid point (well, he would, wouldn't he) .

In the early stages you certainly don't need a magwell. If you are hovering in the area between A and M, perhaps it will help you squeeze past, and if it makes you more confident, you'll probably run smoother reloads anyway - 99% of our game is mental anyway

Having said that, I recently stuck a Dawson Ice on mine (hovering between A and M) and it feels really nice - helps with grip position and I like the extra weight - however, it will need a bit of dremelling/filing (about 1 mm) at the rear to fit comfortably in the IPSC box keeping the barrel parallel to the long side.

Arredondo mag extensions give you and extra 2 rds in .40 S&W and fit in it well, but if you are going to change the stock sights to something higher (like FO's), then you might have an issue with the 15cm dimension.....

[Cardinal]

I think he would have big problems with the box with any mag extensions regardless of sights....

Folks, he is using a G20 not a 9mm/40! Its already bigger than the 17/22/34/35 and the only arrendondo pad I can see for the G20/21 are made to fit Limited with 140mm mags....... Those won't fit in the box.

With the original, low, factory sights, there are only 11mm/0.433" to play with to begin with.