MikeyG23 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 One more war story and I'll quit before I get spanked for thread drift. The same guy from the other story and I were working one of the Market Hall gun shows in Dallas and this was back in the days when Market Hall didn't shut down until 7:00 PM on Saturday which meant that at certain times of the year it was darker than h*ll when you left after the show closed. The shop I worked for was owned by a couple and in those days the owner would take a couple of guys and go to Houston to the AstroHall show and leave the other guy and I with his wife to do the Market Hall show. This particular night the owner had a large amount of cash on her as was typical after a good day and in those days before Texas had the CHL law we carried anyway due to the cash. We covered the tables and started out right at 7:00, there were still a few customers milling around but no real buyers. The other guy took point and I brought up the rear with the money lady between us. As we headed to the door I see 2 guys look at us hard and start moving parallel to us down another aisle. We go out a side door and I think that's that, WRONG. As we go out I see the pair that had been moving with us already in the parking lot looking back towards the side door we went out. We always parked together so that when we left we were all in a group so we start towards where we were all parked and the pair falls in behind us for a few steps and then splits up and flanks us on either side. The hair on the back of my neck goes straight up !! I get the other guys attention and even though he can't tell what has my attention he knows something does. We get to the lady's vehicle and I turn around with my Glock already in my hand, held down to the side of my leg. The 2 guys see it and without a word to each other peel off and go the other way. I quit shaking about midnight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 OK, back from WSXIV, almost caught up on work, time to take a brass-picking stroll down memory lane: Those not at Second Chance really missed something. For nine days you were fed, allowed (for a small fee) to shoot machineguns, compete, talk, camp on the grounds and even drink. For a long time, Second Chance was "FBI." Free Beer Included. Everyone was fine with that, until the inevitable: some asshat screwed it up for us. He drank too much one night, made passes at the wives and girlfriends of shooters who could shoot 'way better than he could, and then on the drive to his cabin rolled his car. End of FBI. But not the end of "FCA." Free chicks for the asking. The timers and pinsetters were local high school and college women, getting paid a nice chunk of cash for working like slaves for two weeks. If you were smart, good-looking or smooth (some combination of those helped a lot) you could spend your nights, shall we say, "well-entertained." However, one cost was that your shooting suffered the next day. One morning I was at the Back Range early and by myself, getting set up and adjusting my caffiene dosage. I had not spent the evening in a manner likely to cause my shooting to suffer. (At least not that time.) A couple of the timers came up and sat in the scoring shed, which I was sitting against fussing over my gear. They obviously hadn't seen me, for the next thing I know, they're discussing various shooters, their attributes, likes and dislikes, and comparing them to one another. And not in regards to their ability with a .45, either. When the conversation expanded to the other timers/pinsetters, and various rumors about shooters, I realized that there were things I didn't know about cute little pinsetters. And didn't want to know. And the shooters? To quote Fraser Crane, "I must poke out my mind's eye." I snuck off to my truck, opened and loudly closed the door, and then walked over to the scoring shed. "Morning Pat, here to shoot the LR or the BC?" I hope my blushing had faded by then. You girls can be cruel. And no, they hadn't gotten around to discussing me, thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Kind of similar story...After winnine the Texas Challenge Team Shoot in '82, it was rolling around again and one of our guys had moved out of town, so we needed another shooter...After looking at the year all the prospects had, we settled on brad Butler...He had finished 2nd at the Florida State shoot behind The Burner and done really well at a few others...Brad was younger than we were and really fast, so we figured he would be a good pick...We asked and he agreed.. Everything went as planned for the 6 weeks or so before the match...we got together and practiced about three times a week, working on fundamentals and all the peculiar things they might throw at us at the match...everyone was shooting really well and our confidence was high...You can see it coming, can't you? Well we three original team members rode to Austin together and Brad would meet us there...so Friday night we rode up and met Brad for dinner...Amazingly, he was not alone... Now Brad was a really good looking young guy and it came as no surprise that he might have a travelling companion, but when she got out of the truck..WOW was all any of us could say... She was about 5'4" with long sandy blond hair, the bluest eyes you ever saw, a smiel that would melt a snowman from 100 yds away, and when she spoke, it turned grown men into babbling dummies....Her name was Libby.... Well Libby had never been to 6th Street before, so we all three showed her a very good time, drinking and dancing the night mostly away; till we realized what time it was and headed back to the motel... The three of us got a few hours sleep, but when Brad got to the range the next morning, his eyes looked like two pee holes in a snow bank, and it was obvious that he had not slept at all... Long story short; we won the match again, but it was a photo finish. Brad's performance was pretty much what could be expected froma half drunk, person who was standing but mostly still asleep...He finished about 30th individually, and did not help our team much at all..Luckily the other members of the team shot well enough to pull out the win, but we learned a valuable lesson...Always ask if the standin is bringing a travelling companion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 We always heard that one of the perennial pinsetters at Second Chance had become a full-fledged "side event" in her own right (i.e. you could shoot as many runs as you wanted, as long as you paid the entry fee up front). By the time I first saw her up there, the bloom was definitely off the rose. In the later years of Second Chance, the climate of the match shifted somewhat from the stag party scene to more of a family-friendly event. The "social opportunities" of the traditional Second Chance experience were still present, but they became decidedly more confusing and tricky to negotiate, as more of the pinsetting jobs were held by the daughters of other shooters. And these daughters were nearly always (1) considerably more attractive than the Central Lake locals, and (2) slightly underage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 We had a guy in our match today wearing a Chapman High Ride holster!That's old school, baby! Hey, I resemble that remark! I love my Chapman. Fast and beautifully made LEATHER. It even smells good! geezer Hey, geezer. Back around the 1979 time frame before I got married, joined the Army and otherwise ruined my chances to participate in the early days of IPSC, I drove from Abilene to Lubbock for an early IPSC match. One stage set up right off the highway (Levelland highway I believe). Kind of a combat jungle walk set up. Were you involved with that shindig back then? By the way, my Chapman High Ride is still in fairly new condition. I didn't use it much. I prefered my Askins Avenger. Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I used both of those and prefer my Gordon Davis 1045... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I forgot about this thread, sorry for the belated answer. There was lots of funky stuff going on out there then. If there were more motorcycles than pickup trucks in the parking area, it was probably a match run by the Bandito’s. Always a bunch of nice folks that were real serious about “combat”. I started at the SO the next year and didn’t see them much after that. The Texas Sightmasters started up on the east side of town in ‘81 and that is where I spent most of the early years. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Was that a take off on Chip's...Texas Target Masters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Was that a take off on Chip's...Texas Target Masters? I don't know for sure because I didn't come up with the name. I did, however, create the first "official" logo which was a Texas flag with a notch in it showing a centered front post. When you look at the list of clubs there are "masters" of all sorts: Action Masters, Range Masters, Target Masters, Sight Masters, etc. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 When you look at the list of clubs there are "masters" of all sorts:Action Masters, Range Masters, Target Masters, Sight Masters, etc. Bater Masters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 When you look at the list of clubs there are "masters" of all sorts:Action Masters, Range Masters, Target Masters, Sight Masters, etc. Bater Masters? The biggest club in the world, No Doubt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behr Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Wow! What a cool thread. I stumbled across this and couldn't stop reading it. Took me back to the days when I had just entered the Air Force and got stationed just outside of Phoenix (Luke AFB) for 4 years in the early to mid 80's. I couldn't put the American Handgunner's down and reading this thread with all the names being mentioned brought a smile to my face. I didn't quite realize it at the time but I had easy access to some great stuff in that area. Gunsite not too far away, Earnie Hill Speed Leather (still have mine), and Dillion. And of course the Cactus league (if I remember right) with two of the top dogs living in the same valley. I was young and poor and didn't shoot nearly as much as I would've liked. But, the sport stuck and still enjoy it as much now as I always have. Thanks for the stories all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncowboy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 My shooting partner down here is about 12 yr older than me, but he started IPSC when, well IPSC started. His USPSA # is CL132. no kidding!! He tells all these old timey stories abuot the nationals back in 78 or 81. "Yup that was the year, ammo was privded and we shot the whole nationals on poppers". Is any of this stuff true??? HAY My USPSA # Is CL62 and the only reason I didn't get a single diget # is I was the youngest in our groop and they made me go get beer from the truck while they waited in line and when I got back they wouldn't let me in line ! J.Michael PS I still have my Chapman high rise and my Milt sparks and my Davis inside holster. STILL use them all. J.M.C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 1979 or '80 was the year that Hornady provided the ammo...lots of malfs due to the OAL of the loaded rounds...to my knowledge it was never done again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 My recollection is that Hornady supplied the ammunition in 1979 at the Nationals held in Utah. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Guy I think you are right, but I also remember them doing it in Virginia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I forgot about this thread, sorry for the belated answer.There was lots of funky stuff going on out there then. If there were more motorcycles than pickup trucks in the parking area, it was probably a match run by the Bandito’s. Always a bunch of nice folks that were real serious about “combat”. I started at the SO the next year and didn’t see them much after that. The Texas Sightmasters started up on the east side of town in ‘81 and that is where I spent most of the early years. David C I forgot about it too. There was no parking lot. Heck, there was no range. We parked along side the highway, and the stage was set up several yard off the highway. All I recall is that the organizers worked in or owned a local gun store. Neat stuff. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Arnold Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I had the pleasure of serving as CRO on the Cooper Assault at the '82 Nationals. And yes, our course designs have come a long way over the years as the rules developed. I personally believe the early days were a lot of fun because of the development that was going on. Everyone was willing to experiment and try just about any gun/holster/load combination. As long as we continue to have fun IPSC will continue to be a great shooting game. Then there was the Cooper Assault. For those of you who don't remember, it involves a six-foot high wall that you have to climb over (no kidding) and a tunnel you had to crawl through and shoot from at the end. You'd holster to climb, but keep your gun out to crawl.The big photo op back then was to be photographed vaulting over the wall, doing your re-draw in mid-air. But this match was different: we started in a car. Again, a real, honest to god vehicle. As I recall, it was some Ford or Mercury model of the LTD II. (I drove a 1978 LTD II at the time) The start horn was some huge-ass stadium speaker that went off at 200 dB. At least that's what it seemed like, as the speaker was on the passenger seat, next to you. Now get this: your first targets were outside the car, and you had to engage them before you opened the door or left the vehicle. As we were all wearing "real world" holsters (typically Summer Specials or other FBI cant leather) we had to dig them out of our kidneys to draw. Then try to maneuver the gun past the steering wheel (sweeping? we didn't do no sweeping!) and shoot through the open window. Then, open the door (more potential sweeping) and exit to reload while sprinting to the wall. Me, I took it gingerly, as even then I'd known more than one cop who had an AD while trying to manage car, gun, suspect and adrenaline rush. Ray Chapman blasts the first targets, bails out of the car, and goes for his reload at the sprint. He misses his gun, and throws the spare magazine straight up. Not missing a beat, he windmills his hand right back to his belt like a heavy metal rocker, grabs the next mag, and has it in place before he gets to the wall. Times suffered on that stage, between people being very careful about gun handling, and others who couldn't find the *(&%&*(# door handle. If you've driven a Chevy all your life, finding the damn handle on a Ford can be tough, and vice versa. All current ROs and stage designers, do not feel wimpy if you cringe when you read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Arnold Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Guy, Hornady provided the ammor for the '80 Nationals at the Lafayette Gun Club in Virginia. I remember that because it was all stored in my garage prior to the event. Cooper wanted to try the concept for a big event. The flat point design did cause problems in a lot of guns. When we again hosted the '81 event you brought your own ammo, as usual. My recollection is that Hornady supplied the ammunition in 1979 at the Nationals held in Utah.Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 back when i started in the early 80's, we used to have an annual shoot where the match director was none other than walt comstock (yep, he created the comstock scoring). walt lived up in NorCal back then. anyway, the bearded-silver haired gentleman was a really nice guy...BUT, he had his way of doing things. walt liked the old days. even though we had begun using audible timers, for walt's match, he used a stop watch. he would start the shooters visually-upon the movement of his hand holding the stop watch, and end the course of fire with a stop plate. yea, i'm dating myself, but i was there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I too remember the stop plates..and you had to knock them down or off a post.. and if you turned it sideways...big problem....dating myself also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyreb Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm getting some wicked ideas here... Especially the idea about a "gas mask" stage. I remember a stage at Ashland (KY) Gun Club many moons ago where we had to wear a welder's hood through the COF. Somebody decided that was the best way to simulate a night shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxD Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I too remember the stop plates..and you had to knock them down or off a post.. and if you turned it sideways...big problem....dating myself also... Yep. And remember some of the stage descriptions? Engage T1,T2,T3 through the window: climb through the window and engage T4,T5, T6 with one foot in the tire. Someone would always ask "does your foot have to be on the ground in the center of the tire or can you just have your foot on the tire?" It was the same guy asking at every match. Glad we don't use tires for shooting boxes anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I too remember the stop plates..and you had to knock them down or off a post.. and if you turned it sideways...big problem....dating myself also... I remember the stop plates also. Our club went high tech after a while, digital stopwatch that had a jack in it, the plate sat on a plunger on top of the post. If you turned it, as long as it moved enough to get off the plunger the time stopped. When I started shooting again I had to have my old USPSA number back......just to let the "newbies" know how long ago this game was played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I thought you had forgotten the questions I used to ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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