Division Capacity loads

[DDay]

This is definitely an IDPA wonk question, but I would appreciate any input into the subject matter. Rule 3.14 states all firearms and magazines must always be loaded to the shooter's division capacity, unless otherwise specified by the stage description. Rule 8.1.2.1. states all magazines must be loaded to division capacity at the start signal throughout the match. In this case the 1911 (CDP) requires 8 rounds per magazine. Rule 8.1.3.6. states that In SSP, ESP and CDP the shooter will also start with one round in the chamber, unless the CoF description requires otherwise. This is where it begins to get a little tricky. In most cases SSP and ESP divisions have magazines that will carry more than the division load requirement; therefore, 10+1 is not an issue. The magazine that has been loaded in the pistol meets the requirements simply by loading 11 rounds in the first magazine. However, an 8 round magazine can not carry the extra round required for 8+1. Under the current rules you are allowed to carry 2 additional magazines and they must be loaded to division capacity, which in this case is 8 rounds. This is where the problem begins. If a shooter does not begin with 1 round in the chamber and 8 rounds in the magazine, then they will be assessed a PE. However, if the shooter chooses to load 1 round in the chamber and then replaces that magazine with one of his magazines that has 8 rounds he will then comply with the 8+1 rule and will not be assessed a PE. However, now one of his magazines has 7 rounds and his magazine division capacity would not be met. So, in both cases the shooter should be assessed a PE. It appears that to comply with one rule, then you must violate another. Would it not be more simple, then to utilize the SSR and ESR rules for the CDP division. Load three magazines of 8 and go get'em?

[Steve RA]

You could always keep a "Barney" round in your pocket to replace the one loaded into the chamber.

[cnote]

No, if u don't have a 4th mag, load one from mag #1 in chamber, remove mag #1, insert mag # 2 = 9 in gun, put additional bullet from pocket into mag # 1 = 8 again ,and place in mag pouch #1

= Barney

SSP/ESP shooters with 10 round mags do the same, not legal to have high caps everywhere.

Edited September 7, 2013 by cnote

[Butterpuc]

I have read the rule book many times, and I don't recall the exact wording for this, but I will try to explain it.

If you use have 5 - 8 round magazines and 1 - 7 round magazine, you ARE declaring a 7 round capacity in all magazines, for the entire match. You can't pick and choose when to use which magazine to best suit the course of fire.

Same goes for 9mm ESP, in regards to 9 & 10 round magazines. If you have 9 round magazines and 10 round magazines, you must declare 9 rounds though out the entire match.

If you happen to own enough of both, bring them all. If it is a major match, and you can review the COF's ahead of time, you would have the opportunity to declare the magazine capacity in your favor. I don't shoot 1911's (yet), so I don't have that option.

I see a lot of shooters using their lower capacity magazines just to Barney up the gun.

[DDay]

It appears that Barney needs to be added to the new IDPA Rule Book (2013).

[chirpy]

Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't top off any mag to div. cap! If in doubt, the Barney round is the way to go but Rule 8.1.4.4 states "No additional loading devices beyond the above limits may be used during a string." This allows you to carry a Barney mag as long as you do not use it during a COF. If you run into a RO who gives you a penalty for not having 8+1 in a .45 or having a Barney round or mag I would turn and run away from that match and never go back!!!!!

I would be very careful if I was shooting Production (USPSA) SSP (IDPA) or any division using a pistol with mag. cap. of more than 10 rounds that I didn't accidently load more than 10 rounds except the first mag! Also, in a stage where you start with an empty weapon, the +1 is a penalty. You can only load to division cap. not div. cap. +1.

Now that is perfectly clear, I hope!!! LOL

Good Luck,

Richard

PS: I have been shooting USPSA for over 25 years and IDPA since the beginning almost and have never run into a RO who penalized the shooter for what you question.

[DDay]

Thanks Richard. So, now at least I am laughing while running. LOL