I've got the clay bug.

[Brassaholic13]

Been a put hole in paper guy for a long time. Tried the whole IDPA thing, and it's just not for me. A buddy of mine recently bought a Mossberg 500 with two barrels. One for home protection and one for bird shooting. It's a scary black gun, of course.

Anyhow, during one of our BS sessions, he had the idea to grab a plastic clay thrower and a box of clays.

I haven't had that much fun in a long time, and even managed a 50% hit ratio while we were just screwing around.

So, I'm now considering purchasing my first skeet/trap shotgun, and trying to figure out a good price point to go with. I know Benelli and Beretta are top of the line (maybe even Browning?), but I'm not willing to spend that much on a gun while I'm still a beginner and just having fun between myself and a few buddies.

I know Remington is probably a dirty word here, but I like my Remington 700 Sendero and Mil-Spec 5R rifles. I also like to buy "Made in the USA" when I can. That being said, I have Beretta 92A1 and 96A1 pistols to go along with my pair of 1911 70 series National Match Colts. Anyhow, I digress.

Can one of you guys who are more experienced with this sport point me in the right direction as to what features I should be looking for? I think I would prefer a semi-auto, but I'm not totally against a pump or double barrel.

Thanks!!!

[Steve RA]

Go to a skeet or trap club and ask to handle the various different styles of shotguns. Most people will let you fondle theirs and might even give you some ammo to try it with.

[Brassaholic13]

That may help, or hurt....

Someone may wind up handing me a $2k-$3k shotgun and I'll wind up spending more money than I care to for occasional use.

[trouble]

One word of advise. We have all herd it a million times but, save and buy the one you want not the one that fit your wallet at the time. Lots of good deals out there on good used O/U and semi shotguns. A good used gun will be better than a new junk gun.

[Brassaholic13]

Oh, I'm fully aware of the buy once, cry once, mentality, and share that belief. I guess I'll have to head to the local trap range and start pestering people to borrow their guns.

[EkuJustice]

Buy a quality used semi auto like one of the older Beretta 391s. Its able to last and can be had for a reasonable price. On these guns, your better off buying a quality gun(used) in the class of guns as your budget allows than trying to step up a class and buying a cheap gun of the higher class. Use to shoot a ton of skeet and a lot of guys had the money to spend for a nice semi auto but were fixed on the OU so they spent what a good semi cost on a junky OU and it didn't last. The good thing about buying quality used is it holds its value well. The beretta 391 can be had pretty reasonable used for one of the older ones and just keeps on trucking and will hold value well

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Get a Beretta 391. The stock is adjustable with shims and you can buy lots of parts for them. They are soft shooting and built to last. Used prices are between $800-$1800 depending on model. I have a Versa Max and the Beretta is a better gun. Shooting clay sports is alot of fun and very addictive. I shoot Skeet, Trap and some 5-stand. I suck at all of them but have tons of fun doing it. I shoot clay sports for fun and shoot pistols for competition. I like the show up and shoot and go home I get with shotgun games. Makes the day go quick. Good luck in your search. Thanks, Eric

[warpspeed]

Pick one of the clay games first then find a gun set up for that game.

My preference is American Trap. I shoot a Browning XT O/U for all 3 - Singles, Doubles & Handicap. Picked it up used for $ 1600.

I like the balance of the O/U and the Browning feels correct for me. I have a Beretta & a Perazzi but do not shoot either as well as the XT.

Oh, and prepare to spend a ton of cash. One weekend of ATA runs me about $ 360 for targets and ammo. The cost of the gun is nothing.

[practical_man]

Lots of good advise here. Shoot other people's guns so you know what you like. Buy a quality used gun from a shotgun shooter - most keep them in good working order and many trade guns often.

The beretta 391 is a fine gun. I had one for a while and sold it because I got tired of picking my hulls up out of the mud or snow. Back to the Citori for me.

Different games require different guns. My trap gun is very different from my skeet gun. I shoot sporting clay and 5 stand with an 870.

Whatever you do, spend some time nd money getting the gun properly fitted to you. Most clubs have. Guy or two that can do this for you. A 4 way adjustable comb stock helps a bunch.

Don't be shy about shooting the gun at a pattern board before you buy used. You want to know where it shoots for you nd what the pattern looks like. Too many new shooters overlook this important step.

Don't overlook the lowly pump gun. You can do a lot worse than with an ordinary 870 with interchangeable chokes. Stocks are cheap so you won't mind filing on it to make it fit - and fit is parmount with shotguns. You can learn to shoot one fast and well. I break doubles easily with mine. Recoil isn't bad esp if you hand load. For casual leagues I shoot a 7/8 ounce 1200 fps load from my 12 gauge and it breaks birds wih authority. Some does the new 3/4 ounce Claybuster 12 gauge wad loaded to same velocity.

Research much, shoot lots of different guns before you buy, and enjoy.

-John

[steviesterno]

I would say go out and try some stuff. Shotgun guys are like 3 gunners, happy to show off their gear and let you pop a few rounds, see how you like it. I started with an 870 and had fun, but I've always wanted a nice classy double that would be good for skeet an sporting clays, and some fun for trap. Ended up finding a buddy with a slightly used Franchi Custom engraved double for $400. Needless to say, it was a present to me!

Shoot it with the 500 or any old shotgun you have laying around for a bit, see what you like and try new things. Will save you time and money. You don't have to drop a fortune. I have hit some crazy shots with a stagecoach and watched a guy go to town at skeet with a taurus judge (and hit everything!).

[Brassaholic13]

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=290

Thanks for that tip... I'd never heard of a pattern board before, but again, I'm not a shotgun guy.

Before we went clay shooting, the same guy and I went to a meat shoot. While we were shooting well on the targets, we never could figure out why the other people had so many more pellets on the paper. We were suspecting cheating with different chokes. Maybe it's just that they were winning not because of better marksmanship, but because they had tuned their shotguns with the proper full choke to maximize the pellet pattern on the target.

Would you guys mind educating me on how a trap and skeet gun vary?

[leftnose]

Would you guys mind educating me on how a trap and skeet gun vary?

Most basically, trap guns shoot a high POI and skeet guns shoot flatter. Think 6 o'clock hold instead of "through the dots." This is because trap targets are always rising when shot whereas skeet targets aren't. The high POI builds in some of the lead and allows the shooter to "float" the target over the gun and keep it in sight. With a flat shooting gun, one has to sweep up and through the target and cover it before pulling the trigger. It's not ideal but it can be done. It just brings an element of timing into the game.

In practice though, there are more differences. Trap guns tend to have higher stocks (which is what causes the high shooting) and higher ribs. The high ribs lets the shooter see the target come out of the house sooner as the barrel is lower in the line of sight and not causing an obstruction. Skeet guns tend to have stock dimensions that are a bit lower to keep them shooting flat but high ribs are starting to become the rage in that game as well for the same reason of visibility.

Almost without exception, a "serious" trap or skeet gun will be break action. Since trap has a few different games, singles, handicap, and doubles, the "best" trap guns tend to be combo sets with a long single barrel that's used for singles and handicap, and an O/U barrel used for doubles. The single barrel, again, allows for better visibility and quicker acquisition of the target. A 34" single barrel with 32" O/U barrels are probably the most common combo.

Skeet guns tend to be a bit shorter with 30" probably the most common length now. Serious shooters all use O/Us with fitted subgauge sets that allow all the events to be shot with one gun. It's even very common to shoot the 12ga and doubles events with the 20ga tubes installed so that the gun always feels the same.

So, trap guns: long barrels, shoots high, break action, two barrel sets. skeet guns: shorter barrels, shoots flat, break action, subgauge tubes.

At the end of the day, though, you can shoot any gun at any game and still have a blast. It's only if you want to be very truly serious that you need to take a closer look at the equipment used.

[Brassaholic13]

Would you guys mind educating me on how a trap and skeet gun vary?

At the end of the day, though, you can shoot any gun at any game and still have a blast. It's only if you want to be very truly serious that you need to take a closer look at the equipment used.

Thanks for that. See, that's just it, I want something I can have fun with and not break the bank. I'm not going to splurge on a $1k-$3k shotgun, until I vet this out and make sure that long term it's something I want to do.

I'm really kicking myself now, as I just sold my grandpa's NIB Ithica 12 gauge last year, although it was a side by side made by SKS? for Ithica. The gun was pristine. I about puked when the guy who bought it told me, after I shipped it of course, that he was going to cut the stock and barrel for use in cowboy? shoots. When it comes to older, collectible guns, I'm a purist. You leave them in the condition manufacturers sold them, not modify them, as they are no longer made!

I'm thinking something in the <gasp> $400-600 range is going to be my FUN limits, and since I have an FFL and have a wholesale account, that will be my limit at wholesale pricing, not street. Of course, I'm not opposed to a well cared for used firearm.

Now, if I can get good at it, and break a hundred string in a row... then we may move up into something more serious and start competing... But that's probably several years off.

[leftnose]

I'm thinking something in the <gasp> $400-600 range is going to be my FUN limits, and since I have an FFL and have a wholesale account, that will be my limit at wholesale pricing, not street. Of course, I'm not opposed to a well cared for used firearm.

Get a 28" Beretta A300 and call it a day. The A300 is basically the same as the now discontinued 391. The 391 is still the semi auto to use for targets even though it has been replaced by the A400. For whatever reason, probably aesthetic, the A400 has not proven to be as popular as the 391.

There are a lot of truly top flight shooters who use 391s. It, and the 300, are great guns that can take you to the top levels of the game. if you're shooting trap, though, get a shell catcher so you're not ejecting empties on the shooter next to you.

[warpspeed]

Just keep in mind that the reason the high end guns are so expensive is they are built to go 10's of thousands of rounds before needing a rebuild.

Some of the more serious trap and skeet guys shoot 10K targets a year that are registered and probably at least that many in practice. A cheap O/U will be worn out quick.

[Brassaholic13]

Just keep in mind that the reason the high end guns are so expensive is they are built to go 10's of thousands of rounds before needing a rebuild.

Some of the more serious trap and skeet guys shoot 10K targets a year that are registered and probably at least that many in practice. A cheap O/U will be worn out quick.

I havent shot that many rounds (10k) in the last 20 years. If I shoot a thousand rounds, it's a total between pistol and rifle. Like I said, I want to get my feet wet. If I continue to enjoy it as much as my initial experience and decide to get into competition, I'll buy a better gun. Fun doesn't have to break the bank.

[EkuJustice]

Good thing with a quality used gun like the older 391s is you will always get your money back if you sell it. On the cheaper ou you need to be concerned about the poi between the 2 barrels. The 2 barrels need to converge and on a lot of the cheaper guns they have a loose idea of what is in tolerance

[Brassaholic13]

This might also be another stupid question.... But I'll ask anyhow.

When trap/skeet shooting, is 12 gauge the standard de facto? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to shooting 16, 20, or 28 gauge?

I'm assuming there would be, in that there would be less pellets flying at the clay target?

[EkuJustice]

You are going to have a smaller pattern with with the smaller gun. For trap your gonna want a 12 ga. For skeet there isn't a whole lot of difference in the 12-20-and 28 ga. If you think there is any chance of you shooting registered skeet and are looking at an OU get a 12 ga as you can tube it for the smaller ga and for registered skeet you shoot the 12-20-28-410. When I shot skeet pretty heavy there was less than a target difference per 100 between the 12 20 and 28

[Brassaholic13]

Thanks!

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Get a 12 gauge. You can load up some 1 1/8oz, 1oz,7/8oz and even some 3/4oz loads. With my limited skill I find I hit just as well in trap with 7/8oz loads #8 shot going 1220fps. For skeet I am using the same 7/8oz loads but #9 shot. For sporting I use 1oz loads of #8's. Thanks, Eric

[SteveZ]

I'm shooting nearly the same thing as Eric. I shoot 7/8oz of 8s @ 1220 fps for trap and sporting clays and 3/4oz of 9s @ 1220 fps for skeet and they break clays just fine.

[madworx]

Love shooting skeet or sporting clays. I use a beretta 391 handed down from pops. I typically shoot uspsa/3 gun however its just plain awesome to go out with a shotgun and blast targets out of the sky! Its so satisfying! Any shotgun will work, I was using a pump mossberg 590a1 and had no issues busting skeet. Don't get too caught up in gear til you figure out what u want to get good at.

[Brassaholic13]

Madworx;

Precisely my point. I don't want to break the bank on buying top shelf gear to find out that once the newness wears off, it's not my thing.

What if I was to scale back from semi-auto to a over/under?

Are we still in the "B"s for brand (Benelli, Beretta, Browning)? Or can something more economical like a Mossberg Maverick Hunter, Stoeger Condor, Stevens 512, or Yildiz still be competitive at the beginner/intermediate level?

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you must have a O/U then get a used Beretta. You can find used 686's or 682's that will last a lifetime. I would try to shoot one to see if it fits you. I would still choose a 391 since it will be better than a cheap O/U. Thanks, Eric