What is the best free float hand guard and why?

[Joe Mamma]

What do you guys like for free float hand guards (for a 5.56/223 AR and low profile gas block) and why?

I see the JP hand guards (Modular and Rapid Configuration) are about twice as expensive as Nordic or AP Custom. Are they better?

I spoke to someone at Nordic about the various brands and options. But he couldn't really explain the differences (other than price).

Thanks.

Joe Mamma

Edited August 9, 2013 by Joe Mamma

[CocoBolo]

I have a PRI, what is good about it? It is carbon fiber weighs nothing, makes the gun light. When compared to my backup gun that has a Quad Rail aluminum unit, it is one fat bertha butt.

Why is light weight good? Swings faster stops faster. As you might know, perverted 3-gun stage designers like making senior citizens run a 100 hards with the rifle, then take 500 yard shots with a plastic barrel for a support. One less pound adds up on the run.

Edited August 9, 2013 by CocoBolo

[P.E. Kelley]

This is "best" for me. Several flats to take advantage of stage props.

[benny hill]

Getting old, carbon fiber for 1lb less weight and not as hot here in south tx.

[45shooter]

I really like the lancer handguards. Carbon fiber light durable and can be found in octagon shape to use flats on props or round, depending on what you like. They have attachment points all over. Lancer also supports the sport

[Joe Mamma]

This is "best" for me. Several flats to take advantage of stage props.

What is it?

Joe Mamma

Edited August 9, 2013 by Joe Mamma

[D.Hayden]

I think it's this:

http://www.seekinsprecision.com/quad-rails-hand-guards/sp3r-mod-quad-rail.html

No picture.. but there are some on the site..

I think Pat posted it somewhere in another thread

Edited August 9, 2013 by D.Hayden

[michael1778]

This is "best" for me. Several flats to take advantage of stage props.

What is it?

Joe Mamma

It's a Seekins SP3R. My only knock against it is weight. I recall a forum post by Seekins (at another site) that the 15" version weighs a little over 15oz. The shape, which I very much like, could be considered "genius", by some. Personally, I'm intrigued.

An AP Customs carbon fiber tube at 15" comes in at 6.3oz. I weighed my new one in it's bubble wrap and got about the same weight, probably will be lighter once unwrapped. AP may not be as robust over time? Hard to for me to say since my other one is only about a year old on a little used rifle. And I'm sure we could all argue about this or that attachment design. It uses the mil-spec barrel nut (you provide) along with a provided trunion (I think that is what they call it. Weight-wise AP is the champ. Because of that I have them in my new 18" upper design. I managed to design an 18" upper with a heavier profile hybrid contour 18" Criterion barrel that is less than 2 oz heavier than a 16" barreled upper with a slimmer contour barrel.

Lancers look nice and seem to have a useful shape (octagon), but they seem heavy for carbon fiber. Might be the weight of their barrel nut mount. If that is the case then at least that weight is nearer the rifle's center.

Apex GatorGrip handguards got my attention when I was making a 308 AR design. For aluminum, they seem very lightweight. Lighter than many Carbon fiber options mentioned. Cylindrical but with a grip texture that many report as pleasing/useful. I'd advise you check them out. It seems like a well thought out system and looks rock solid for attachment.

Lots of choices so think carefully about the overall rifle purpose/use case, design, balance, etc.

[P.E. Kelley]

Yup, it is a Seekins Precision SP3. It is red, it's fast and it's mine!

The 15" unit seen here weights 13.2oz. I eat Wheaties and I ran a 13# M1A super match for years so a couple of oz. don't bother me.

[Jadeslade]

PRI Carbon fiber. Originally developed for the MK 12. LIght and extremely modular, because rails can be place anywhere. When quad rails came in, they were popular, some are better than others. But the 12,3,6,9 o'clock orientation can be limiting, plus extra weight. The newer round aluminum hand guards like Daniel Defense and the JP modular are smaller and easier to grip. It is now a matter of preference and feel. I like the Seekins, I like the Daniel Defense. Ease of mounting them on your rifle costs more. You really have to try them all and see which one fits your hand and body the best. I think they are all good-from the good manufacturers. Pat Kelley is 7 feet tall and can lift me over his head with one hand, so I call him sir and pay close attention. You have to find what works. There is no best. It's like who's the best guitar player-there's a lot. The only thing you really need to mount on a competition rifle is a sling mount and a light mount. Have fun, good luck.

[P.E. Kelley]

Jadeslade has it in spades…Personal preference! I have a reflex carbon unit on a 308 and it is stellar!

[michael1778]

Yup, it is a Seekins Precision SP3. It is red, it's fast and it's mine!

The 15" unit seen here weights 13.2oz. I eat Wheaties and I ran a 13# M1A super match for years so a couple of oz. don't bother me.

Pat, your rifle is dead sexy, no doubt. And you shoot about a million times better than me. But your humorous history note does point out something. Your rifle preference will likely be heavier than mine because of your extensive experience. That UBR is heavier than I would like, but is fantastic kit regardless. That Pit Bull isn't noted as being a feather either, but is awesome glass with stellar field of view.

I like competition rifles with some flash and flair, like yours. This is a game and should be fun, right?

I'm trying to find that post I saw about the weights. I think it was at AR15.com. I don't like to make a statement and not be able to back it up with data. Does your stated weight include the attachment hardware? That could explain the difference. Is that a proprietary barrel nut or is it a system that works off a mil-spec nut? I've never been clear on that.

The key point stated above which we all seem to agree with is that there are many fine choices in the market. Personal preference and experience with the units will lead us to different solutions that may also change over time. There is no singular "best", but many quality items that can be "best for us".

Edited August 9, 2013 by michael1778

[P.E. Kelley]

You are on the right path 1778 try, buy, try and buy again. You will find what suits you! And that is all that counts.

[Bob Hostetter]

you want sturdy but light weight. So for now carbon fiber is the best choice.

[ShooterSteve]

I'm with Cocobolo, love my PRI. Comfortable,lightweight, hard to beat it. Hey Patrick, what's that odd ball looking black thing sticking up in the air behind your comp?

[KTKlaus]

Its a matter of preference for everyone on their decison on handgaurd, thats why there or so many. Weight, modularity, attachment, price, size, texture all come into play. And since you gave a vauge/general question, you will probaby get many responses in turn.

I had used the JP handgaurd before. I would have to say its a great handgaurd but on the heavier side for my likes. Currently use the Troy due to it attaching to a standard barrel nut and I like the rough texture. I want to go back to the Samson Evo rails but I want to try the Barnes Precision UltraLite rail for my 14.5/16" light build. Only Carbon Fiber handgaurd I would like to get is the Lancer (which I had the opprotunity to try).

[Lead-Head]

My preference is the Samson EVO 15". I am a little biased, but for ease of installation, ruggedness, and feel, it is hard to beat.

Not to mention they have been a big supporter of 3gun at several levels. Got to give them a look.

[APL-G35]

The seekins SP3G does use a proprietary barrel nut, but only because its so awesome. It doesn't interfere with the gas tube so you can get the correct torque no matter what. It's extremely rigid and well though out and with the titanium barrel nut it balances well.

[MarkCO]

If I could not use our Carbon Feather, I would probably be running a Samson Evo. No way I would use a slotted Carbon Fiber tube and the Clark not being removable kills that option.

I look for durability, strength and quality in the parts I use.

[Joe Mamma]

No way I would use a slotted Carbon Fiber tube and the Clark not being removable kills that option.

MarkCO or anyone else, what are the problems with slotted carbon fiber tubes?

Joe Mamma

[Onagoth]

I'm pretty happy with my samson evo

[michael1778]

No way I would use a slotted Carbon Fiber tube and the Clark not being removable kills that option.

MarkCO or anyone else, what are the problems with slotted carbon fiber tubes?

Joe Mamma

Almost was finished and somehow deleted my answer. Let's try again. Trying the other editor.

My background: Aerospace/astronautical engineer. Back in my early career I designed structures for nuclear powered submarines that were made of fiberglass, carbon fiber composites, or a combination of the two. To say that my design group was a bunch of rebels in the Navy and contractor sub community is a large understatement. 3-gun wise, I've been at this off and on for about 18+ months. OK, now that we have that out of the way.

I use slotted CF tubes, knowing their potential issues. What issues? Well, glass and carbon reinforced plastics (what most laypersons consider to be "composites") very often reach their desired strength and/or stiffness because of their continuous reinforcing fibers. Let's say that again......continuous. In your everyday experience, what is "stronger", chipboard or the same dimension item made of real wood. Natural wood has long fibers running through it. Those are what gives the wood its relatively high strength or stiffness to weight ratios. With me so far?

OK so then someone like AP Customs, Lancer, or PRI comes along and either has holes or slots in their CF tubes. I haven't inspected Lancer (sponsor to my regional 3-gun matches and makes great product) or PRI tubes up close. I am assuming they get their slots or holes by some process *after* the tube is made. I'm very sure that is how the AP Customs slots are made. If that is true, then the finishing process to make the slots has lowered the strength and stiffness of the material and thus the overall tube. Many fibers are cut and can't transfer loads across air gaps (the slots). It also makes stress concentrations, but we don't have time to go into that much material science. The open question is, Are we getting much benefit from the CF material if it's broken up with so many slots? I don't know for sure. It's worth asking and considering.

Mark's company makes "plain" looking continuous CF tubes. They keep any holes for mounting small and as few as possible. Result? Has to be higher strength and stiffness to weight for that item. When their web site talks about using prototypes for batting practice, you should certainly believe it. I never doubt it for a moment.

"But wait, Mike.....you said you use slotted tubes earlier in this long winded reply." Yes, I did. I'm making an educated bet that the final strength and stiffness in the AP customs 15" tubes I have on two rifles will be more than adequate for my needs. Are tubes that have more continuous fibers very likely even stronger and even more durable over time? Yes, I'd think that is the case. But, in the end, for my use, I am not sure how relevant it will be. And for sure, I need mounting locations for handguard lasers, a bipod, and any other toys I might want when shooting Open. I'm not doing it for cooling. And any weight savings (from material removed for slots) is incidental. I want the mount options for little rail gadgets.

The latest AP customs CF tube looks to be made differently than mine from early 2012. It looks like they manage the slot edges in a better way. I think it is at least slightly improved from before. If I'm wrong and it breaks, I'll either get a CF tube from Mark's company or get an aluminum handguard like an Apex GatorGrip or a Seekins SP3R (I'll have to change gas blocks for this one). Marks goes to many more matches than I do. He's done this for longer. He has real 3-gun product design and sales. I like the way he thinks and that's why I like getting items from his company. Mark gives fantastic advice based on sound engineering and his real-world 3-gun experience. You've got the high-level materials science lecture and reasons why I appear to be going against his advice. I think both styles of product are sufficient for the use case, but time will show if that is true or not. As always, your mileage or experience may vary.

Thanks for reading this far.

Edited August 10, 2013 by michael1778

[HotLoad]

+ 1 for Carbon Arms

[slowhand23]

+ 1 for Carbon Arms

Tempted to try the Feather on my JP 18" upper but not sure about the heat during the long hot matches.

[CocoBolo]

Somebody show me a broken carbon fiber tube, that wasn't stepped on by a Rhino, drove over with an 18 wheeler, or Squashed with a bob cat bucket. My daddy always said jr could break a crowbar, well I haven't managed to break the PRI yet.

I have to agree Mark CO knows way more than most of us, he is running a CF tube so I must have guessed right when I got mine.

I really did not know how much I liked my lite weight gun till I built a new gun because Obama said I couldn't have one, bet me buckwheat. Any how politics aside, the heavier gun, which I thought I wanted taught me how much I like my old gun! Sometimes you have to go down the wrong path to figure out you were already on the right path.

Which CF tube is right for you well that may just be a matter of preference. If I get another one I'll try Marks.

The only thing the heavy gun does is make shooting long range a bit easier since its harder to move. Plus with all the rails I can hang a couple flash lights, a cleaning kit, a roll of toilet paper, an a I-pad on it. Ooops that's not me that is those Tactical guys at the IDPA match. I have rails but now all I want to do is get rail covers, they might be good for something I just don't know what.

Edited August 10, 2013 by CocoBolo