perazzisc3 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Whats a good starting load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 9mm? 38 Super? 38 Special? 9X21? 9X23? 38 Short? etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perazzisc3 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) 9mm superdude Edited August 3, 2013 by perazzisc3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 No reloading manuals? HP38 and 231 are the same powder so Lyman lists 3.5-4.1 for TMJ @ 1.115. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perazzisc3 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 No reloading manuals? HP38 and 231 are the same powder so Lyman lists 3.5-4.1 for TMJ @ 1.115. Thanks for the intel Dirty Rod. I have Nosler and Lee reloading manuals and neither have anything on HP38 and 231 with 147gr 9 mm bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ring Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I called Hodgdon and asked about W-231 and 147 bullets in 9mm. They said that they did not provide data for this combination because the load would be compressed with any useable powder charge of W-231. Since it is a "ball" powder, they don't recommend any compressed loads with it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I called Hodgdon and asked about W-231 and 147 bullets in 9mm. They said that they did not provide data for this combination because the load would be compressed with any useable powder charge of W-231. Since it is a "ball" powder, they don't recommend any compressed loads with it. Chris That is very interesting. Thanks for posting that. Edited August 5, 2013 by superdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 They said that they did not provide data for this combination because the load would be compressed with any useable powder charge of W-231. Since it is a "ball" powder, they don't recommend any compressed loads with it. Interesting. I've loaded and shot thousands of 147s with 231. If they are compressed, it can't be much if at all. It shoots soft, runs clean, and is quiet with a suppressor. I generally use around 4 gr. of the powder. Seating depth depends on the bullet. RN are seated to around 1.135". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KY1911 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I use 3.5 of HP38 with Valiant's 147gr truncated cone flat-point. Light recoil, accurate, cycles/feeds well and hammers steel with authority. Plus the bullets are inexpensive...500 for under $30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xraysur Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I called Hodgdon and asked about W-231 and 147 bullets in 9mm. They said that they did not provide data for this combination because the load would be compressed with any useable powder charge of W-231. Since it is a "ball" powder, they don't recommend any compressed loads with it. Chris I wonder if something else is going on here besides a compressed load. I did some measuring and I don't think that I would end up with a compressed load, at least using the the 147 grain bullet I have. Follow along with my math and let me know if I go off the tracks somewhere. I don't have a FMJ bullet, but I do have a Frontier round nosed copper plated bullet that measures 0.665” in length. I grabbed an empty 9mm case and it is 0.745” long. Let's also assume that we are going to shoot for an overall cartridge length (OACL) of 1.13”. Based on the responses to this post, it seems that people are using from 3.5 to 4.0 grains of W-231 to drive 147 grain bullets. I put 3.5 grains of W-231 in the empty case and then measured the distance from the mouth of the case to the level of the powder. It was 0.36”. Next, I computed the length of the bullet that will be outside the case. Exposed bullet length = OACL – case length = 1.13 – 0.745 = 0.385” From this, we can calculate the length of the bullet inside the case. Length of bullet in the case = Total bullet length – exposed bullet length = 0.665 – 0.385 = 0.28” This tells us that there is space between the powder and the bullet. It is not a compressed load. Space between the seated bullet & powder = mouth to power distance – length of bullet in case = 0.36 – 0.28 = 0.08” I also measured how much space is left in the case after I loaded 4.0 grains of W-231. It is about 0.325”. 0.325 – 0.28 = 0.045” of space between the powder and the base of the bullet. Of course, if you need an overall cartridge length somewhat less that 1.10”, then you'll start compressing the powder. Base on the information I have, there are clearly many load combinations that will not be compressed, but I certainly cannot say that any of these loads are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KY1911 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I use 3.5 of HP38 with Valiant's 147gr truncated cone flat-point. Light recoil, accurate, cycles/feeds well and hammers steel with authority. Plus the bullets are inexpensive...500 for under $30. Was able to chrono this load. It runs at 899 from my 4.25" M&P. Recently bought a custom M&P 5" in 9mm. Shot same load today and recoil is more in the lightened gun (naturally). Will try to drop it a few tenths and see how that does in 5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The w-W 14th Edition reloading manual listed 3.5 gr. W-231 as a maximum load with 147 gr. cast lead bulllets. They never` recommended W-231 with jacketed bullets of 147 gr. weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasref Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have used 3.6 of 231 under 124 gn. round nose and had very good results from a Sprinfield XDm. Never used it with a 147 though. Acording to what I can gather, if your shooting a coated bullet, you can use the plated bullet info. I have and have found no problems doing so. That will expand your load data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinka Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I just test fired some berry's 147gr with 3.5 of 231, 1.113, 35 degree day, M&P Pro. Made right at 125 PF, will be bumping that up the 3.6 to make sure I make power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'd bump it up a little higher - maybe 3.7 or 3.8 and chrono it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinka Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Warmer day with 231 should make it a little faster correct?? getting ready to load some more tonight may make them 3.7 just to be safe. Guess if they dont make power they will be practice rounds instead of match rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopps Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) I loaded some 147 jhp's at 3.6 gr of hp38 and seemed light. I just loaded up some at 3.8 with a coal og 1.115 and should be better. Edited March 14, 2014 by chopps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I shot a few thousand 147 plated with 3.6 of 231 in my Shadow and yeilded consistently at or just below 130 PF. Last year I recall the lowest I ever averaged was 128 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopps Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I shot a few thousand 147 plated with 3.6 of 231 in my Shadow and yeilded consistently at or just below 130 PF. Last year I recall the lowest I ever averaged was 128 PF. Out of curiousity what C.O.A.L were you at Jody ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Pending on the bullet, 1.105-1.120" normally. I load as long as the barrel will allow. Canadian made Campro I load to 1.105" and it is 100% reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopps Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for the data jody I shot a few thousand 147 plated with 3.6 of 231 in my Shadow and yeilded consistently at or just below 130 PF. Last year I recall the lowest I ever averaged was 128 PF. Out of curiousity what C.O.A.L were you at Jody ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No problem! This actually is a pretty nice load, cycled my gun well with the 11 pound spring and was plenty accurate. Same load with Berry's yielded good results too. 231 is often overlooked but to me proved to be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopps Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No problem! This actually is a pretty nice load, cycled my gun well with the 11 pound spring and was plenty accurate. Same load with Berry's yielded good results too. 231 is often overlooked but to me proved to be a good choice. I run a m&p full size and have alot of berrys 124 rn and 147 rn plated and since I cannot find hodgon universal clays I have got to use hp38 and it works fine for my range needs of practice ammo. Plus from what told hp38 and w231 are the same and I got 12 lbs of it to use up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) I think you will like it. I think your barrel will allow you to load a little longer. As always start low with your charge weight and work your way up. Good luck, and safe shooting! Edited March 14, 2014 by Jody Waring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopps Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Oh yeah I have shot some pretty long loads out of a factory winchester box before like 1.150 and was surprised. I think you will like it. I think your barrel will allow you to load a little longer. As always start low with your charge weight and work your way up. Good luck, and safe shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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