Has anyone heard of this?

[PSSOH22]

I have been loading .45 of various bullet weights for some time. I have tried VV 310, REDDOT, Solo 1k, and W231.

Yesterday at a local IDPA match, My area coordinator told me to try this and handed me 15 rounds of 230gr RN.

I proceeded to shoot a few, and they ejected extremely quickly, but the recoil impulse seemed to be non-existent. I immediately turned to him and asked what powder it was and could I get some. He has been around the shooting sports for years, he was one of the behind the scenes guys who formed IDPA back in the day.

Anyway, he said it was a 2 part mixture recipe of VV N310 and Accurate No.2..... Has anyone else heard of this? The last thing I want to do is play crazy scientific concoction guy, but damn! There is such a HUGE difference between his ammo and what I thought was some lighter recoiling ammo which I load.

[Guy Neill]

Duplex (or triplex) loads are not recommended. There is a risk of stratification (separation) of the powders that change the performance drastically.

Loading technique - are the powders pre-mixed, or is the case charged with one, and then the other? If one, and then the other, you are intentionally layering it. Then the problem may be the powders mixing when you don't want them to. If pre-mixed, are they uniformly mixed, or is a particular charge going to have much more of one than th uniform mix you want. If you want a 50 - 50 mix, but an individual charge comes out as, say, 75 - 25, how will it change the performance (pressure) of that shot?

They have been done, obviously.

The original 454 Casull, before it became a factory cartridge was a triplex load.

With the wide variety of powders available (under normal circumstances) there should be one that will offer acceptable performance without the need to mix our own.

Guy

[PSSOH22]

I hear you! The powders were premixed and I'm not sure exactly how it was done, but I know of a few other people making ammo with mixed powders. Brian Zins from top shot is one of them. He is local and sells newly manufactured ammo for competition with a vv mix.

All your points are extremely valid though and I ill try and get more info on the mixture.

In your opinion, what are som of thbest powders for a lighter recoil impulse?

[bigdawgbeav]

still love my Clays

[PSSOH22]

I've found clays to be extremely dirty personally. Compared to vv, solo, and red dot

[noylj]

Found Clays to produce sudden strange pressure spikes with sudden increase in velocity for weighed charges from the ChargeMaster. It, N310, and TiteGroup are on my "be cautious and don't load max" list.

AA2 is a great powder, but I find 231/HP38 to be much more consistently accurate over a wide range of charge weights.

It is hard to find a bad powder for .45, but I can't find a better powder than 231/HP38.

[Guy Neill]

I personally don't have the "feel" such that I have noted differences - at least assuming equal power factors.

Mathematically, nothing bears it out except the change in charge weight.

In an upcoming Front Sight, I've asked people to share their experiences with various powders. Perhaps we can develop a list of powders people have found to give less felt recoil. The same invitation here. I'd like to know people's experiences with powders that gave them less felt recoil, thinking of those giving the same power factor. What powder were you using, and what did you change to, along with details of what cartridge, powder, charge, bullet and velocity.

My appreciation for any data that may be provided.

Guy

[superdude]

Here is some objective data on gunpowders and recoil:

http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder%20and%20Recoil.html

[bowenbuilt]

I have become addicted to e3. Same low recoil as Clays but no spikey surprises and burns clean.

[BBQDawg]

Here is some objective data on gunpowders and recoil:

http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder and Recoil.html

That was a very interesting article.

[Guy Neill]

It was an interesting article. Thanks for pointing it out.

While he does not list the charge weights directly, reading from the graph and calculating the recoil, they match up just about exactly as expected - as the charge weight increased, so did the recoil value. I say "about exactly" as I read the graph such that the powders he listed as one and two on his line-up of recoil reversed on mine since I had read his number 2 powder using 0.1gr less powder versus his number 1 powder(again - as I saw the graph). That is for all loads delivering 1250 fps.

It still seems to leave things as individual "feel", and, or the heavy slow bullet versus the light fast bullet. At least until we have more data.

Guy

[lneel]

There is no magic powder...find something you like and works and go shoot more of it.

For .45 with a 230gr, Clays or VV310 is great, AA #2 is fine too, just a little dirtier for me but works fine.

Lee

[superdude]

I sent this information to Guy via PM but thought that others who are reading this thread might find it of interest as well so I'm reposting it here.

With respect to the article on gunpowder and recoil that I directed you to, the charge weights of the two powders (Titegroup and N320) were virtually identical. Actual charge weight differences for Titegroup and N320 were 0.048 gr. If I calculated the charge weight for 1300 fps the difference shrank to 0.015 gr. The test was repeated and this time N320 used less gunpowder, and for 1300 fps the difference was 0.005 gr. So, these two gunpowders used more or less identical charge weights for the same velocity, but Titegroup consistently produced more recoil, albeit not very much but was about 1mm more movement.

You can see the recoil profiles of the different gunpowders at the link below. There are also recoil measurements comparing different bullets weights at the same power factor at that link.

http://38super.net/Pages/Recoil.html