Losing/Black-out RETICLE

[perrysho]

Hope this is the right place for this question.

A week ago shooting a 3Gun Nation Classifier,stage was Down and DIRTY, had to lay - down and shoot 4 targets from under a table. I have a DMS-1 Millet, I kept losing the Reticle like it was blacking out. It's mounted on a Burris extended mount.I could wiggle the rifle around and find it and make the shots.

Don't know if my mounting / eye relief / are something else was going on. Ideas Please!

Shot 5 Classifiers 3 OK for me and 2 like I left my brain at home, oh well poop happens.

Any INFO I'll be thankful for.

Perry

[wgj3]

Some of the more wallet-friendly scopes will do that in bright light and when you aren't in the "right" position behind the optic. Maybe your cheekweld was off when you had to get down to shoot under the table? Maybe bright light was a factor? Maybe battery was dying or loose? But should have still seen black reticle even with no battery. I would put my $ on cheekweld/eye position as being the culprit.

Edited July 9, 2013 by wgj3

[Space Cowboy]

Sounds like an eye relief issue. It may not be set properly on your rifle for you.

To verify if the scope is mounted correctly, I have my students first set their optic on minimum power. While standing, mount the rifle to their shoulder without moving their head. You should be able to see clearly through the optic without any "blacking out" of the optic. If you do lose some of your optic the scope must be moved forward or backward to correct this.

Once it passes that test then repeat at maximum power. Again the glass should be clear. The eye relief range will be lower at higher magnification. Also some optics have smaller eye relief ranges thus making them susceptible to "blackout" when the shooter is in alternate shooting positions, like prone.

Hope this helps.

[davidwiz]

Sounds like an eye relief issue. It may not be set properly on your rifle for you.

To verify if the scope is mounted correctly, I have my students first set their optic on minimum power. While standing, mount the rifle to their shoulder without moving their head. You should be able to see clearly through the optic without any "blacking out" of the optic. If you do lose some of your optic the scope must be moved forward or backward to correct this.

Once it passes that test then repeat at maximum power. Again the glass should be clear. The eye relief range will be lower at higher magnification. Also some optics have smaller eye relief ranges thus making them susceptible to "blackout" when the shooter is in alternate shooting positions, like prone.

Hope this helps.

+1 check eye relief

[rtr]

Not all scopes are generous with eye relief (meaning how large of an area in space you can place yur head and still see through the scope). Having shot a DMS I can say it has poor eye relief. The scope that I have experience with with the most generous eye relief is a Trijicon ACOG TA11. I'd suggest you try out a few scopes if you have friends with them to find one that works better for you.

[shooterready]

Not only is eye relief an issue with magnified optics you also have to contend with the eye box. Postion of your eye in Y and Z. Assuming X is looking down the optic. Some are better than others, but the DMS is on the lower end. I used to own one. All magnified scopes require good eye alignment in X, Y, Z. Reflexive sights are more forgiving.

[davidwiz]

I really like my TA-11 because of the eye relief issue - I can have a bad placement on the rifle and still see the reticle.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I had a few DMS-1 and the same thing happened to me. The eye box on those scopes is terrible at best. But what can u expect for $200 or less. I upgraded my DMS scopes to Burris Tac30's and they have great eye relief for only $100 more. I have 4-5 of them on practice guns and .22 trainers.

[fastshooter03]

I hope I can remember this.....

Your problem is most likely exit pupil more than eye relief.

Exit pupil refers to the size of the image coming out at the eye relief distance.

It is the objective diameter divided by the power setting. I.E. 20mm obj / 4x = 5mm exit pupil

IIRC your eye has something like 7mm(dark) to 2mm(bright) pupil diameter.

Soooo if your eye is not centered on the eyepiece within the availlable exit pupil, you will only get a partial image or none at all.

Usually if your eye is centerd but not at proper eye relief you can still get an image.

Nick

[Jesse Tischauser]

I hope I can remember this.....

Your problem is most likely exit pupil more than eye relief.

Exit pupil refers to the size of the image coming out at the eye relief distance.

It is the objective diameter divided by the power setting. I.E. 20mm obj / 4x = 5mm exit pupil

IIRC your eye has something like 7mm(dark) to 2mm(bright) pupil diameter.

Soooo if your eye is not centered on the eyepiece within the availlable exit pupil, you will only get a partial image or none at all.

Usually if your eye is centerd but not at proper eye relief you can still get an image.

Nick

Have u tried a DMS? It's like l

[Jesse Tischauser]

I hope I can remember this.....

Your problem is most likely exit pupil more than eye relief.

Exit pupil refers to the size of the image coming out at the eye relief distance.

It is the objective diameter divided by the power setting. I.E. 20mm obj / 4x = 5mm exit pupil

IIRC your eye has something like 7mm(dark) to 2mm(bright) pupil diameter.

Soooo if your eye is not centered on the eyepiece within the availlable exit pupil, you will only get a partial image or none at all.

Usually if your eye is centerd but not at proper eye relief you can still get an image.

Nick

Have u tried a DMS? It's like looking thru a straw.

[larry weeks]

Some smart shooter told me to set up my stock/scope/eye relief for your worst position (likely prone) and make do on all the rest. Pretty smart cookie. I now have a side charger receiver with a big hunk of foam on top of the stock.

[Dan Sierpina]

Some smart shooter told me to set up my stock/scope/eye relief for your worst position (likely prone) and make do on all the rest. Pretty smart cookie. I now have a side charger receiver with a big hunk of foam on top of the stock.

Geeze, Larry.

Don't go telling people that. Let them set the scope in the optimal position. Some of us need all the help we can get!

[assaulter]

I had a few DMS-1 and the same thing happened to me. The eye box on those scopes is terrible at best. But what can u expect for $200 or less. I upgraded my DMS scopes to Burris Tac30's and they have great eye relief for only $100 more. I have 4-5 of them on practice guns and .22 trainers.

This is about what I was going to post, but I recommend the MTAC.

[fastshooter03]

Have u tried a DMS? It's like looking thru a straw.

No I haven't but I can imagine how bad it is.

I use whatever people will give me

Now I just need to find a handguard sponsor.....

Nick