Shorty Vs. Full Size for new open 2011 owners

[mike g35]

So as all I've of you know I recently bought my first open 2011, a STI Matchmaster. Well....I did it again. I know from experience with other platforms I've used in open that if you can count on one thing and one thing only its the fact that something, at some point, is gonna go wrong. Parts break, and you'd better have a backup gun if your paying to shoot big matches. Enter my new TruBor. I bought the TruBor so I could not only have a backup gun but also so I could have a chance to compare the shorty (MM) to the TruBor (full size). I figured as long as I was getting a chance like this my experiences could help others caught in the predicament of "first open gun, shorty or full size". So, I thought if start a thread, comparing the two styles, from the viewpoint of a new (to 2011's) open shooter. I'll update my findings as I go. I have parts on order to get the trubor up and running. I am also gonna compare to the sight options I'll be using, the RTS vertical, and the 90 degree CMore. I think some could benefit from what I find, at least I hope. Once the testing begins I'll update.

[CB45]

I think my Trubor shoots softer than my shorty open gun, but the Trubor also weighs more at the muzzle.

Get both running 100%. My Trubor didn't run until I replaced the firing pin stop and ejector with oversized parts. I am still tuning on the ejector, but its almost there. If you have issues with stovepiping, check to see if the extractor is clocking. I think its pretty common.

Shoot both until you decide which one you shoot better. I didn't like my shorty at first, but now I do.

[CocoBolo]

Calling that a TruBore is an insult to whom ever did all that work on it, its a full size with a trubore barrel. It is probably 5 oz lighter than a real Trubore. I have owned a couple of TruBore barreled guns, and as much as I loath poppel holes, I drilled both of them, 2# 3 holes abount 1/2" back of the comp. Made a lot of difference in flat and soft, but loud as hell and a tooth rattler.

Assuming 38S, with the holes nice slow powder like N105 or Accurate 7.

The shorty seems violent, when compared to the full size gun, but in essence it has a quicker flip maybe a bit more, but it is lighter easier to swing and stop, that said I sold mine as I prefer my full size guns, the extra weight being my preference and before I did that I took the problem to the ultimate judge, the timer, on a measured course repeated many times and the big gun always won!

[Trent1k1]

Thanks for doing the comparison. It should be interesting.

[mike g35]

Thanks for doing the comparison. It should be interesting.

Thanks, no problem. I think it'll make for an interesting thread and a fun experiment. What I can tell you is whichever gun I end up preferring I am going to make my primary open gun, the other will be my backup. And once I'm sure I prefer one over the other I am going to pay the down on a custom build. Then once the custom gun is near completion one of these two will go up for sale....maybe.

So far, purely from a "feel" and aesthetic perspective I seem to be drawn in two. The full size gun "feels" better. It's a little heavier but balances well. The Shorty on the other hand feels less like a open gun and feels more like a limited or production pistol. We all know the shorty will win on transitions, its lighter weight (as Cocobola said) will make it easier to swing and stop. But open isn't limited or production, its open, it's about getting the gun to move the least amount possible while firing while still being able to transition and remin quick with the firearm. I can't see how the full size gun will not beat the shorty when it comes to running flat and faster follow up shots. But, until both guns are fired and tested while running at 100% I am withholding any preconceived notions on which gun will be best. Only the tests will tell the tale.

Would anyone be interested in video to accompany the thread? I usually video my matches and practices and if you guys have any interest I'll post the videos on my YouTube channel and then post the links here.

[eric nielsen]

Good thread. Prediction -

You'll like your dry-firing more w/the shorty. You'll like your match scores better w/the TruBor.

[BrianATL]

Thanks for doing the comparison. It should be interesting.

Thanks, no problem. I think it'll make for an interesting thread and a fun experiment. What I can tell you is whichever gun I end up preferring I am going to make my primary open gun, the other will be my backup. And once I'm sure I prefer one over the other I am going to pay the down on a custom build. Then once the custom gun is near completion one of these two will go up for sale....maybe.

So far, purely from a "feel" and aesthetic perspective I seem to be drawn in two. The full size gun "feels" better. It's a little heavier but balances well. The Shorty on the other hand feels less like a open gun and feels more like a limited or production pistol. We all know the shorty will win on transitions, its lighter weight (as Cocobola said) will make it easier to swing and stop. But open isn't limited or production, its open, it's about getting the gun to move the least amount possible while firing while still being able to transition and remin quick with the firearm. I can't see how the full size gun will not beat the shorty when it comes to running flat and faster follow up shots. But, until both guns are fired and tested while running at 100% I am withholding any preconceived notions on which gun will be best. Only the tests will tell the tale.

Would anyone be interested in video to accompany the thread? I usually video my matches and practices and if you guys have any interest I'll post the videos on my YouTube channel and then post the links here.

Assuming that your presumptions are correct, are target acquisitions and transitions less important than splits? Hmmm

Ignore the feel and trust the timer

Edited July 6, 2013 by BrianATL

[mike g35]

Thanks for doing the comparison. It should be interesting.

Thanks, no problem. I think it'll make for an interesting thread and a fun experiment. What I can tell you is whichever gun I end up preferring I am going to make my primary open gun, the other will be my backup. And once I'm sure I prefer one over the other I am going to pay the down on a custom build. Then once the custom gun is near completion one of these two will go up for sale....maybe.

So far, purely from a "feel" and aesthetic perspective I seem to be drawn in two. The full size gun "feels" better. It's a little heavier but balances well. The Shorty on the other hand feels less like a open gun and feels more like a limited or production pistol. We all know the shorty will win on transitions, its lighter weight (as Cocobola said) will make it easier to swing and stop. But open isn't limited or production, its open, it's about getting the gun to move the least amount possible while firing while still being able to transition and remin quick with the firearm. I can't see how the full size gun will not beat the shorty when it comes to running flat and faster follow up shots. But, until both guns are fired and tested while running at 100% I am withholding any preconceived notions on which gun will be best. Only the tests will tell the tale.

Would anyone be interested in video to accompany the thread? I usually video my matches and practices and if you guys have any interest I'll post the videos on my YouTube channel and then post the links here.

Assuming that your presumptions are correct, are target acquisitions and transitions less important than splits? Hmmm

Ignore the feel and trust the timer

Good post and that's exactly what I'm planning to do. I don't want to do one of those "this ones better because I like it better" type comparisons. This WILL be performance based, you all have my word on that. Edited July 6, 2013 by mike g35

[unclebud]

Sounds interesting, by the way what is the name of your you tube channel, I would like to check it out.

[actionshooter38]

Deffinitely looking at this one closely. Thanks for thinking to do the comparrison. I would think vids would be more than welcome.

[Front Man]

I shot one shorty once; didn't like it.

And it doesn't mean a damn thing because there are a lot of variables.

[MikeRush]

I just shot my full size for the first time today. If anyone wants to send me a shorty I will gladly make a comparison video To make the deal sweeter I will even film it in HD.

[kneelingatlas]

I just shot my full size for the first time today. If anyone wants to send me a shorty I will gladly make a comparison video To make the deal sweeter I will even film it in HD.

Mike,

I've got a shorty Tanfo project you can compare to my full size Tanfo when I'm done with it.

Edited July 7, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[mildot1]

The only comparison I see your going to get is between "your" TruBore and "your" shorty. There are a lot of options out there that can be incorporated into a custom build or having your trubore lightned up, for instance a full size gun with 10oz slide and titanium comp will transition different than the trubore with the steel comp hanging on the end. The comp your using can change the chg weight you need to get the dot movement you desire. My last two were full size guns, one with a EGW 9 port, the other the Dawson awesome. The new one has the Cheely Titanium, inch shorter weighs less and takes less powder due to it's effiency.

I understand that your looking for answers and you have to start somewhere.

Good Luck

[mike g35]

The only comparison I see your going to get is between "your" TruBore and "your" shorty. There are a lot of options out there that can be incorporated into a custom build or having your trubore lightned up, for instance a full size gun with 10oz slide and titanium comp will transition different than the trubore with the steel comp hanging on the end. The comp your using can change the chg weight you need to get the dot movement you desire. My last two were full size guns, one with a EGW 9 port, the other the Dawson awesome. The new one has the Cheely Titanium, inch shorter weighs less and takes less powder due to it's effiency.

I understand that your looking for answers and you have to start somewhere.

Good Luck

This couldn't be more true, but I still think this is a valid comparison for someone looking for answers when they're just getting started. I would think that the majority of those starting in open buy in to it one of two ways, either by buying used or by buying a factory STI. Both my guns are STI, both have trubor barrels, both have Dawson firing pins, Aftec extractors, they'll be compared using the same magazines, and the load will NOT change from gun to gun (124gr MG CMJ, 7.3gr WAC, 1.170 OAL). The only difference between the two is the optic (RTS vs. 90 degree CMore). Not to mention that I'm just an average C class shooter. I would think all of those factors combined would make for a decent comparison. I've done similar test videos before and I've got good reaponses. Keep in mind this isn't about me getting attention (as I could care less), its just about helping new shooters looking to get into the open division. I hope that by sharing my experiences I can help some people out there that are confused about which gun they should buy. And I hope to further encourage them to get into the division and competitive shooting as a whole.

[mike g35]

Sounds interesting, by the way what is the name of your you tube channel, I would like to check it out.

Here's the name of my Youtube channel: Racegunshooter . Understand these videos were made when I was still shooting for my former sponsor. So you're gonna think I'm doing a heck of alot of advertising for a certain company because....well....I was. You should be able to find all my videos on there with no problems. I pretty much fully documented my first two years in USPSA, so there are a TON of them. Edited July 7, 2013 by mike g35

[mildot1]

The only comparison I see your going to get is between "your" TruBore and "your" shorty. There are a lot of options out there that can be incorporated into a custom build or having your trubore lightned up, for instance a full size gun with 10oz slide and titanium comp will transition different than the trubore with the steel comp hanging on the end. The comp your using can change the chg weight you need to get the dot movement you desire. My last two were full size guns, one with a EGW 9 port, the other the Dawson awesome. The new one has the Cheely Titanium, inch shorter weighs less and takes less powder due to it's effiency.

I understand that your looking for answers and you have to start somewhere.

Good Luck

This couldn't be more true, but I still think this is a valid comparison for someone looking for answers when they're just getting started. I would think that the majority of those starting in open buy in to it one of two ways, either by buying used or by buying a factory STI. Both my guns are STI, both have trubor barrels, both have Dawson firing pins, Aftec extractors, they'll be compared using the same magazines, and the load will NOT change from gun to gun (124gr MG CMJ, 7.3gr WAC, 1.170 OAL). The only difference between the two is the optic (RTS vs. 90 degree CMore). Not to mention that I'm just an average C class shooter. I would think all of those factors combined would make for a decent comparison. I've done similar test videos before and I've got good reaponses. Keep in mind this isn't about me getting attention (as I could care less), its just about helping new shooters looking to get into the open division. I hope that by sharing my experiences I can help some people out there that are confused about which gun they should buy. And I hope to further encourage them to get into the division and competitive shooting as a whole.

I never had an iota of a thought that this was about you getting attention, I thought that you were looking for answers and I thought I was giving you some things to ponder. If you are trying to make a comparison with the guns "YOU" have on hand and are NOT going to change the loads you are fouling your test IMHO.

Tuning an open gun is NOT about comparing ammunition.

The bottom line is "will it make 165PF at any match and do I like the way it shoots" or you are pissin in the wind.

You simply cannot compare any two open pistols with the same load and say one shoots flatter than the other,PERIOD. MY "Old Timey" Hayden Oliver built pistol makes 171PF at 7.2 WAC and the dot is just how I like it. It took 7.3 WAC out of my Freedom Gunworks pistol with the Dawson Awesome and 175PF to calm the dot down. The same load out of the new gun"shuemann barrel" with the Cheely TI comp was crazy, I thought these guys are nuts for saying this is the most efficient comp made till I chronoed it and it was 182PF. Tried 7.0 WAC at 171PF and it is the flattest shooting pistol I have owned.

I'm building one now that will be the first KKM barreled open gun I have built and I have no idea what will work till I shoot it!

I think the diff between a full size and the shorty is a personal preferance. I could probably get the dot tracking about the same with both guns by changing the powder charge or bullet. Some guys like the feel and swing of a short gun and others like the the feel of a 5". You will have to sort that out yourself.

Here to help in any way I can

Mildot1

Edited July 7, 2013 by mildot1

[mike g35]

mildot1 you make a very valid point and you bring up something I failed to consider when thinking of doing the comparison. My load is tuned to my MatchMaster, so to keep things as fair as possible I'll do the same for my Trubor. And I guess what you're saying about this being a comparison between "my" guns is right also but I still believe there may be something to gain for new open shooters by comparing the two guns. If not, then I'll do alot of typing for nothing, I'll get in some trigger time, and have a good time doing it. And I'm fine with that too. LOL

BTW I appreciate your posts bro. If nobody challenges my logic and knowledge then I don't learn anything.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Another thing you may want to consider is bullet. I like the 115 grain bullets better than the heavier ones. I have tried 121,124,125, and even 147grain. WAC is a good powder but try to get both guns to react the same. That may mean that one is 170PF and the other is 175. Your tests will take some time but you will learn alot from it. You may even find that you like the higher power factor better. Use a timer on some drills since it doesn't lie. Thanks, Eric

[mike g35]

Hello: Another thing you may want to consider is bullet. I like the 115 grain bullets better than the heavier ones. I have tried 121,124,125, and even 147grain. WAC is a good powder but try to get both guns to react the same. That may mean that one is 170PF and the other is 175. Your tests will take some time but you will learn alot from it. You may even find that you like the higher power factor better. Use a timer on some drills since it doesn't lie. Thanks, Eric

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I'm planning to take my time with this and try to do a decent job so all the help is highly appreciated. After all I'm not exactly new to open but I am new to 2011's so I have a little learning to do myself throughout this comparison. I actually built test loads for the TruBor yesterday, I should have some testing done today or tomorrow. And I will use a timer & chrono throughout all the testing I do, whether it be load testing or doing drills or whatever. Edited July 8, 2013 by mike g35

[mike g35]

Shot the Trubor and the Matchmaster side by side yesterday. Without a doubt the full size gun is softer shooting, and as expected the shorty seems to win in transitions. I'd like to say I did some extensive testing but that's simply not the case. With the Pro-Am coming up tomorrow I was more focused on my shooting than the guns performance. More to come, AFTER the Pro-Am.

I am opting for the shorty at the ProAm. Mainly because I've shot it in a couple matches already but also because I believe this style lends itself better to a fast steel match. Those fast transitions will be very welcome this weekend.

Edited July 13, 2013 by mike g35