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How far can the M&P Pro 40 go vs the 3k guns

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I was thinking about going into Limited division and I was leaning towards the M&P Pro 40 since I have the apex I took out of my M&P Pro 9 so I can be production legal. And well the M&P Pro is a bit cheaper than the S_I's of that division. I figured out I would ask here since I am literally the only person shooting M&P at my club. I plan on getting all the dress ups for the gun if I think it's worth it.. Or should I just save save save and get a STI Edge is it going to help that much? I know its a lot about the shooter and not the gun... but how is that for a start?

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Does an SV or STI shoot a hell of a lot softer than my M&P Pro? Yup. Does it reflect in my scores? Nope. Give me a .22 and hit the buzzer, I still have the ability to bomb a stage no matter how "flat" it shoots. I'd love to get a nice STI, but it's hard to beat having 2 complete Limited M&P's, completely customized with cheap mags that don't need tuning and reliable extensions, springs and followers for less money than a single STI. Eventually when the gun is holding me back (provided I get to B classification, then through A and finally start blaming the gun at M) I doubt I'll do much worse than breaking even on the M&P's when I sell them and can go get a nice STI.

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Don't worry about it until you can get to an "A" or "M" classification, and by then you will know the answer. The gun will not hold you back from getting that far or farther. There are great reasons to own a S_I, such as you might enjoy shooting it more. However, it's not going to make a night and day difference in you ability to place in a match for a long long time!

Mike

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I am kinda in the same situation now. I shoot my basically stock pro 40 in limited. no long mags or magwell. Shoot high c/ low B scores. I have been looking for a 2011 style to try out. the main difference i can see and feel is the weight and trigger of the 1911 style guns. Friend has a Brazo's and it is like heaven in the hand.

What has kept me from buying one is the cost. gotta get a gun/mags/holster which adds to to a lot after its all done.

If i can find someone getting out of limited and selling a package deal at a decent price, i might jump on it, but i will run my Mp40 till I do.

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In the end, its the Indian that gets the job done, not the Arrow........... BUT the tools the Indian uses can be more or less effective. For example, A properly built 2011 based pistol will have far more mechanical accuracy than an M&P. That is a reality that you need to assess when making a decision on which platform you want to go with. Are you willing to live with a 6 - 10 inch group at 25 yards? or is a 1 - 2 inch group a requirement?

You also have to think about the local support / brain trust situation. If the vast majority of the local shooters are using an STI/SVI based Limited gun then there will be a ton of local experience on what is needed to make that type of gun work. If you choose to run a "One Off" Limited gun then you need to learn all of the lessons on your own. For example, If you use a "One Off" type of pistol and you forget your mags or your holster and don't realize it until you get to the range you are hosed. If you are using a common pistol then it would be pretty likely that someone would have a holster, mags, etc to lend to you for the match. The same goes for when you start having issues. If you are using a common pistol it is very likely that others have experienced the same issue and know the solution. If you are using a One Off pistol, you will be on your own in figuring out the issue.

I think that the M&P is a great platform and has potential to be a competitive Limited gun. That being said, I invested a significant amount of time, ammo and $$$ trying to get an M&P Pro 40 to work in Limited but it was never accurate enough for me. I simply can't live with a 6 - 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets need to go exactly where I am aiming, not somewhere close to where I am aiming.

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Ok, I have two 9mm M&P Pro's both are 5" and one is a CORE with a RTM on top and fully open. I got these after shooting a STI both in open and stock class for six years. No doubt they are fine weapons. I cannot answer why someone could not get better then a 6" - 10" group. I get on a regular basis. 2" - 4" and the 4 is caused by me not the gun. My thought is simular to others I can buy much more for my money with the S&W then the STI. But my ego can not get quite as high. IMHO

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If you can't justify spending $3K or more for your limited gun, then don't. This is a hobby for the vast majority of us, and as long as your having fun, stick with your M & P.

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Ive been shooting this sport for a year now. I started with my m&p9, then to a 40 pro a couple months later, then took the plunge and got and Edge in Feb. As i progressed through the year i did think the gun was holding me back,but i learned it is indeed the shooter that matters.

I will say this, even though at my skill level going from m&p to Edge didnt make a monumental leap in my classification, i sure as hell aint going back to the m&p. These 2011s are fun to shoot.

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I'm just getting into USPSA, I used what I had for the first match. I knew I was going to like it so I had been planning on getting something for a while. I ended up ordering a 2011 style gun that I will be able to use for all competitions (came from IDPA, but don't really plan to go back since the USPSA bug bit me). If you can justify getting one whether it be the comfort of it, better trigger, or the "coolness" factor then do it. Will it make you a better shooter? Marginally once you are used to it, but will it make you happy? Most likely.

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I started USPSA in Singlestack. Bought a M&P Pro .40 to get into Limited, and it served me VERY well and still does. Easily got me to a number of B and C-class wins. Not a dang thing wrong with running it in Limited. And, it feels that much better when you best all the shiny custom '11's with a plastic gun.

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I plan on building a limited m&p (currently shot a bone stock m&p 40 in production and a 40 trojan in lim10) I am consentrating on movement and making good hits, speed isn't always king in production until you hit M/GM I won a production stage due to points over an A shooter that shot it 12 seconds faster but pulled some NS/M.

I plan on saving for a full house Cheely 2011 eventually but will learn on the much cheaper M&P platform.

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I know this isn't a listed option but if you are trying to save money then the cz tactical sport is a pretty nice shooting option for a lot less than the STI/SVI offerings

about 1k for the pistol itself but mags cost a decent amount

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I think that the M&P is a great platform and has potential to be a competitive Limited gun. That being said, I invested a significant amount of time, ammo and $$$ trying to get an M&P Pro 40 to work in Limited but it was never accurate enough for me. I simply can't live with a 6 - 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets need to go exactly where I am aiming, not somewhere close to where I am aiming.

I'm just kind of shocked that any modern pistol can't shoot any better than that if the trigger puller isn't a factor. Massad Ayoob claims he can pop off head shots at 25 yards with a 2" barrel double action Smith and Wesson stubnose with a 12 pound trigger pull, shooting off-hand.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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I think that the M&P is a great platform and has potential to be a competitive Limited gun. That being said, I invested a significant amount of time, ammo and $$$ trying to get an M&P Pro 40 to work in Limited but it was never accurate enough for me. I simply can't live with a 6 - 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets need to go exactly where I am aiming, not somewhere close to where I am aiming.

I'm just kind of shocked that any modern pistol can't shoot any better than that if the trigger puller isn't a factor. Massad Ayoob claims he can pop off head shots at 25 yards with a 2" barrel double action Smith and Wesson stubnose with a 12 pound trigger pull, shooting off-hand.

I'm a bit confused also. Maybe CHA_LEE is speaking specifically to the M&P 40 Pro? I know my 40 caliber Glock shoots lights out. For that matter, my J-frame shoots well too.

A 6-10 inch group sounds icky. :mellow:

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I think that the M&P is a great platform and has potential to be a competitive Limited gun. That being said, I invested a significant amount of time, ammo and $$$ trying to get an M&P Pro 40 to work in Limited but it was never accurate enough for me. I simply can't live with a 6 - 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets need to go exactly where I am aiming, not somewhere close to where I am aiming.

I'm just kind of shocked that any modern pistol can't shoot any better than that if the trigger puller isn't a factor. Massad Ayoob claims he can pop off head shots at 25 yards with a 2" barrel double action Smith and Wesson stubnose with a 12 pound trigger pull, shooting off-hand.

Mas says a lot of things...

Some of the earlier M&Ps had a number of issues which I'm not entirely familiar with, ranging from weirdo twist rates and premature unlocking. I'll have to bench both of my Pros sometime and see what they do. I've been in the same boat re. building a limited pistol. Do I work with what I know, or will I perpetually be polishing a turd?

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My suggestion is to dedicate 2-3 magazines of your M&P Pro to limited division and use everything else you already own. This will allow you to save up for a STI/SVI/Custom 2011 build or a CZ/Tanfoglio build.

I also own an M&P Pro 9 and a Glock 34, the accuracy of both of these is basically 4" at 25 yards, and the recoil is certainly mild in 9mm. However, there is a significant difference between a heavier 2011 and a Glock/M&P. I have shot an STI/Custom 1911/2011 with high PF ammunition and it does make a difference compared to the Glock/M&P. The better accuracy will also come to help you sooner than later. With a better recoil managing pistol and more accurate, you will see the benefits of it as you progress as a shooter. Currently, when I engage targets at 25 yards plus, I absolutely have to make a dedicate focus on the center of the target and the hits are generally on the edges of the scoring zones, so I cannot take a chance at shooting to fast.

This is my plan ... And maybe in the next year or two I will purchase a dedicated "limited" division pistol. I do plan to spend $3000-3500, it gets expensive when you factor in everything.

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I've seen (repeatedly) the well-known M&P problems of doubling (aftermarket sears) and failure-to-extract. The FTE's take so long to fix you might as well have shot the match with a revolver instead. Had several shooters tell me their M&P can't group half as well as their Glock or other platform gun. Maybe they're the same ones using light recoil springs and risking an FTE?

Locally a lot of guys have moved on from M&P to something else. For less than $2000 my vote is also for the CZ Tac Sport - the factory triggers are great, none of the above 3 problems are likely, and the heavier weight will benefit most people shooting Limited Major. With the CZ Custom magwell it's a very pretty gun & will never be mistaken for a water pistol.

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I've seen (repeatedly) the well-known M&P problems of doubling (aftermarket sears) and failure-to-extract. The FTE's take so long to fix you might as well have shot the match with a revolver instead.

Revo isn't really a fair comparison as the extractors are so much bigger :D

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I'd say stick with the plastic and become a better shooter, but wow, if M&P's have such accuracy issues I'd go for a Glock 35. Set a grip force adapter and a huge mag well on that thing plus a good set of Warren sights and you're good to go. Sure would be one heck of a gun for Limited. (Disclaimer, I use a Glock 34 for limited, but that's mostly because I'm not in it for the winz)

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I have no doubt that if S&W wanted to pay Eric G. a bunch of money to shoot a M&P40 in Limited, he would probably still win.

I have no doubt that, for me, shooting my M&P 9Pro versus a $3K 9mm S_I would make no improvement in my 3Gun scores.

I have some doubt, but a Steel framed single-action pistol in .40, for USPSA, for even the average shooter, given equal time on the platforms, can add a percent or two to overall placement at a major over a polymer framed striker fired pistol.

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I have some doubt, but a Steel framed single-action pistol in .40, for USPSA, for even the average shooter, given equal time on the platforms, can add a percent or two to overall placement at a major over a polymer framed striker fired pistol.

Based on?

- USPSA accuracy?

- Draw speed?

- Split Speed?

- Transition speed?

- Reload Speed?

- Reliability?

- Capacity?

- Better trigger?

- Ease of use (perhaps, lack of effective trigger time)?

- Other?

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- USPSA accuracy? Advantage S_I (but probably scant at best)


- Draw speed? Advantage Plastic


- Split Speed? Advantage S_I


- Transition speed? Advantage Plastic


- Reload Speed? Advantage S_I


- Reliability? Advantage Plastic


- Capacity? No advantage


- Trigger? Advantage S_I


- Recoil Control? Advantage S_I



Some of those criteria are inter-related. I know I can split a 40 ounce steel framed single action about 0.03 seconds faster, with 2As than an equivalent PF load in a G35. But, my transitions are smoother with the G35 and I don't over swing, that gets me the 0.03 seconds back? Maybe. Before you flog me Kyle, realize I stated "I have some doubt" related to this assertion.



I put a lot of $ time and effort into trying to like a Tanfoglio, then a 2011 for Limited. When I gave up that quest and just went and shot a Super Classifier, boom, made A, after trying for 2 years with other platforms. For a guy who never practices, I was happy with that performance at the time. Now I realize I have to practice and there are SO many other aspects that get me the improvement other than the pistol platform. I took a few pistol classes with GMs this year, I realized, just stand and shoot, I could hang within 90% or better of their times. Footwork, draw, reloads, bobble heading, and grip were the detractors, not the platform.



I hope that little info helps the OP see that the platform is not that big of a deal.


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