45 acp load using Clays

[bowenbuilt]

It takes 4.2 for my gun to make major with Clays. My older manual shows a maximum charge with a 230 grain jacketed bullet to be 4.7 grains. I have ran it up to 4.4 without any case head expansion and I trust that more than trying to judge primers for pressure. At 4.2 with a plated bullet I get an average of 750 FPS and have been using this load for many years without incident. This is with a minimum OAL of 1.200.

[BBQDawg]

Do you guys have any trouble dropping consistent 3.7 gr of Clays? I have a Dillon 550b and can't seem to get it to consistently drop 3.7 gr of powder. I can get major power factor with 3.7, but was noticing huge differences on occasion with a few of my loads on chrono. Went back to reloader and dropped and weighed about 40 drops. Started out at 3.7, but then after awhile would get a few that were anywhere from 3.4 or 3.5 up to 3.9 and one 4.0. On my chrono had gotten velocities from as low as 695 to high of 780 out of my government model 1911. I know I'm using the correct powder bar, am making as consistent a stroke as I can all the way to bottom with pause at bottom, and on a very stable bench. I can't figure it out. I have since switched to N310 and getting very consistent drops of 3.8. I really like the Clays, but can't get it figured out as to the drops.

[area51]

3.7 of clays with precision, berry's or cast 230's @ 1.230" makes major in all of my full size 45's.

yes yes.. love that load

[jstagn]

Put a mark on your adjustment screw and see if it moves when you get these variations. According to Dillion within .1 is the standard of their powder measure. Also, what bullets are you using to make major ? 3.7 of clays seems lite. How does the n310 shoot in comparison to clays. I use 4.1 - 4.2 clays with 230gr RN xtreme plated to make major....

[kimberacp]

_{from my LBaer, 4.0 grs Clays, /1.250 OAL./ .470 crimp./230gr xtreme plated bullet. @ 748 FPS. I have recently reduced to 3.8. that should enough for weekend matches.}

Edited October 23, 2013 by kimberacp

[BBQDawg]

I am using Bayou Bullets 230gr RN. Have also started trying the 230gr S&S coated bullet. Really like both of those bullets and haven't really decided which I like best yet. Both very accurate with Clays and N310. As to the N310, both bullets shoot almost identical, both extremely accurate, with 3.8gr of N310 at about 1.250-1.252 OAL. Both are right at or just below 170 Power Factor. Velocities are almost identical, but have to factor in that Bayou are about 229gr and S&S about 231gr in weight. I actually think I like the N310 better than Clays, except for the fact that I have about 8 lbs of Clays powder now.

[jstagn]

Lucky you have that clays, around here in Northern VA. impossible to find....

[Flat4boxer]

_{from my LBaer, 4.0 grs Clays, /1.250 OAL./ .470 crimp./230gr xtreme plated bullet. @ 748 FPS. I have recently reduced to 3.8. that should enough for weekend matches.}

I use 3.8 grs Clays in my LBaer PII at 1.220 OAL/.470 crimp/230 gr Zero JHP and get 700 FPS.

[Poppa Bear]

I just chronographed a new load using Xtreme 230 gr JHP's with an OAL of 1.220. I loaded up 3 batches of bullets using Clays as my powder. I started with the 3.8 gr load and got an average of 765 FPS for a PF of 175. I could have checked the 4.0 gr load but figured it would be a bit higher yet and I only need 165 to make major so I was better safe than sorry if that .2 grain increase created a big spike in pressure. The 4.2 gr loads..... I like my fingers so they were definitely a big NO WAY IN HELL.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Poppa Bear

[thermobollocks]

I just chronographed a new load using Xtreme 230 gr JHP's with an OAL of 1.220. I loaded up 3 batches of bullets using Clays as my powder. I started with the 3.8 gr load and got an average of 765 FPS for a PF of 175. I could have checked the 4.0 gr load but figured it would be a bit higher yet and I only need 165 to make major so I was better safe than sorry if that .2 grain increase created a big spike in pressure. The 4.2 gr loads..... I like my fingers so they were definitely a big NO WAY IN HELL.

230 grain .45 ACP does not need to be anywhere near the high end of the pressure spectrum to make major. 4.1 to 4.2 of Clays does well for me with 230 grain Xtreme RN or cast RN loaded to 1.27" with no signs of high pressure over a half dozen firings. However, particularly for a hollow point, 1.22 seems pretty short.

[bowenbuilt]

Hodgdon lists 4.0 with a jacketed bullet at only 17000 CUP with an OAL of 1.200, 4.2 with a plated bullet is still way under anyone's +P load so I don't think you will loose any fingers. At least I still have all of mine after thousands of rounds with this load. 4.2 just barely seals the chamber with some smudging of the brass still. Adding a few tenths to a 9 or .40 max load might be cause for some concern because of the high pressure they are working at but I don't think you will get in too much trouble with the .45.

[Poppa Bear]

That could be but with a 175 PF at 3.8 grains I was not willing to find out what increasing it by .4 would do.

[thermobollocks]

My point isn't that more is better (quite the opposite, find where you need to be and stick with it) but rather that PF is not an indicator of operating pressure.

My poor 625 needs 4.1 grains to make major thanks to the short barrel and cylinder gap, but that's obviously going to be working with more pressure than a 3.9 grain load that makes major out of a Government model 1911.

[DougCarden]

1.230 oal.....4.2gr of clays will get you at least 790fps....everytime.

DougC

[Poppa Bear]

My point isn't that more is better (quite the opposite, find where you need to be and stick with it) but rather that PF is not an indicator of operating pressure.

My poor 625 needs 4.1 grains to make major thanks to the short barrel and cylinder gap, but that's obviously going to be working with more pressure than a 3.9 grain load that makes major out of a Government model 1911.

We are both on the same page with that. Find what works and stop there. A point that many newer reloaders can pick up from this is that I thought I would need the 4.0 grains if not higher to make major. I loaded the 3.8 to give myself a baseline to work off of to see how much higher I might need to go. My previous load used 4.2 grains to make major, but the HP profile is longer than my Moly coated RN bullets were so I started lower than what I thought I would need,

There is such a thing as too light of a charge so you do not want to go well under the minimum charge weight, but start lower than what you think you will need and work up. Because no two bullets styles are identical even from the same manufacturer sometimes you get a higher FPS with a lesser charge just because of the difference in seating depth.

[ToddKS]

On the issue of inconsistent powder drops, I have experienced this using Clays out of my RCBS powder drop. Clays has a fairly large flake size. I have found that if my stroke is not 100% consistent that I will get variation in excess of +/- .1gr. I imagine with the additional moving parts that it is more difficult to maintain a 100% consistent stroke on the powder measure on the Dillon.

I prefer to load WST in my 45 ACP for this reason, but I do still use Clays and a 185gr bullet for Steel Challenge in my 1911 because the gun shoots very well with that combo.

[bowenbuilt]

My point isn't that more is better (quite the opposite, find where you need to be and stick with it) but rather that PF is not an indicator of operating pressure.

My poor 625 needs 4.1 grains to make major thanks to the short barrel and cylinder gap, but that's obviously going to be working with more pressure than a 3.9 grain load that makes major out of a Government model 1911.

We are both on the same page with that. Find what works and stop there. A point that many newer reloaders can pick up from this is that I thought I would need the 4.0 grains if not higher to make major. I loaded the 3.8 to give myself a baseline to work off of to see how much higher I might need to go. My previous load used 4.2 grains to make major, but the HP profile is longer than my Moly coated RN bullets were so I started lower than what I thought I would need,

There is such a thing as too light of a charge so you do not want to go well under the minimum charge weight, but start lower than what you think you will need and work up. Because no two bullets styles are identical even from the same manufacturer sometimes you get a higher FPS with a lesser charge just because of the difference in seating depth.

it's a great thing that you can make major with just 3.8 grains. You have a fast barrel and that's a good thing to have. I have 3 guns that I lost count on the number of rounds that's gone down the tube but none of them, even when new, would better than 750 with less than 4 grains with a plated bullet. I can get major with a cast or coated bullet at 3.9 but not with the plated. Good for you on the fast barrel!!

[Old3GNR]

It's been awhile since I loaded Clays in a .45 but here's my data. 178 gr., 4.8 Clays, 930 FPS , 166PF. 200 gr., 4.7 Clays, 907 FPS, 181 PF. 230 gr., 4.8 Clays, 903 FPS, 208 PF. (Pin Load). All Win LP primers out of a 1911 design.

[Steve RA]

Chrono info from 5" Taurus 1911.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Steve RA

[thermobollocks]

That's way nicer than my chrono spreadsheets.

[jcc7x7]

3.9 clays, 230 Bayou, WLP, COL 1.255 Chrono'd 177 PF at area 7 2013, and 178 PF at SS Nat'l 2014

Might be your scale or mine.

Like was said before go 1/10 at a time and get the velocity you need while checking safety

Also try and borrow another chrono to verify yours

[tac_driver]

Lyman pistol and revolver third edition

has a 225 LRN oal 1.272

Clays MAX 4.3 818fps 17,100 CUP

out of a 5" receiver

[AmmoGuy]

So Far in using Clays or Clay Dot, Same Load data gives roughly the same results as far as in FPS, Using mixed brass so have to expect never the same but so close to each other makes too small a dif.

Also remember 45 brass and others as you resize them the brass shrinks so the crimp will vary. But using a 230 TMJ Frontier 3.9 gives 750 fps and 3.8 gives 730 fps, And yes the extreme bullets wants .01or so more and the Berrys the same less. I did have a fairly big spread but that's due to the mixed brass, you name the brand and it's in the batch. Those results out of a Colt Series 70 NM using .002 to .003 crimp. Of course if all the same headstamp the spreads tighten right up and the 3.8 works great, Even works the new Glock 4th gen without problems.

One thing i"ve seen is that TightWad works even better then Clays using 200 LSWC but stinks with the 230 especially the FMJ's or plated 230's. Pressure peaks too fast.

Oh Well Have Fun.

[bowenbuilt]

3.9 you say, making major with a 230 grain bullet you say. Since most coated bullets tend to run about 30 FPS slower in my guns than plain lead I would say it is amazing how much velocity is gained by a few years time. Very interesting. Maybe I should just wait and mine will catch up.

jcc7x7

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:57 PM

Old Ispc load was 5.8 gr of 231 everybody I knew shoot that. BUT that was in the 180 power factor days

Currently for both IDPA or USPSA I use

3.9gr of clays with a 230 RN Lead at 170 Pf

Or

4.8grs of WST with a 200gr LSWC

4.2 of clays is real nice shooting with a 200gr SWC both are in the 170-171 PF range.

My 625 revo. also makes Pf with all the above loads

As always do you "due deligence" and make sure these loads are safe in your guns by working up slowly from starting loads in a manufactors book

Quote

[dirty whiteboy]

I have used over 4.0 grains of Clays with 230's, no problems with pressure. I think I have been at 4.2-4.3 shooting out of a Glock 21