Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

45 acp load using Clays


mississaugagunnut

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I am trying to develop a load for IPSC's Classic Division Major. I am loading 230g rn fmj Aims. I want to use Clays powder. I need to make a pf of 170 to make Major but am having a hard time doing so. At 4.1g I am still only averaging about 700 fps. I need over 730 fps. My coal is 1.125. Any ideas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Slug your barrel.

Measure the Aim bullets. I've found them to be all over the place for weight and diameter and in plating quality. A lot of pin holes from improper cleaning.

I don't use them any more.

Edited by RePete
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are loading for 45 in a 1911 the 1.125 oal sounds way too short. I think 45 would be more like 1.200-1.260. Loading longer will allow for more powder at the same or less pressure. A clays major load will be close to the max of the load in a book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I apologize, my OAL was 1.25 not 1.125.

Here is some more background.

I am using a Lyman electronic scale to check my powder and am loading using a Dillon XL 650. I am chronographing using a Shooting Chrony, outdoors.

I believe my chronograph methods are somewhat correct. When chronying I first use some Norinco factory ammo and it is quite hot, 850 or higher. I then test my various hand loads.

I understand that Hodgdons recommends no more than 4g under a 230 fmj rn. I have reduced the OAL to 1.23 and seen minor velocity increases. The rounds functioned properly in my Ruger SR 1911.

I have loaded 4.1 and it has tested at times around 700 fps.

I am starting to think my powder measure is off and I am considering getting a beam scale to verify my powder throws.

Unfortunately I purchased 8 lbs of Clays and am stuck with it. I previously used Bullseye and had a good recipe for that.

Thanks for all the replies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been testing Clays myself. I have the following results shooting from an XDM 5.25

230gr Plated RN, 3.9gr. Clays, OAL: 1.245 = 700fps

225gr Lead TC, 3.9gr. Clays, OAL: 1.200 = 784fps

230gr Coated RN, 3.9gr. Clays, OAL: 1.245 = 739fps

The "coated" was from Black Bullets Int'l and 230grs were closer to 232+/-. Next up I'm testing Bayou Bullets and I'm expecting that 3.9/4.0 is going to be right on target.

As for my "plated" RNs... those are from Xtreme Bullets and I've been aware for some time that you need to bump the charge with plated bullets even if they say to use lead data. So I'm thinking 4.1 or 4.2 will do the trick.

When testing loads I measure each and every charge. I am looking for 100% consistency across the chrono. Once I have a load dialed in then when I load en masse I'll check every 10th round or so knowing that if I'm a little off I have that margin of error. But all testing rounds are weighed.

My process for this is simple: Resize/deprime case, prime case, put case on scale and tare, drop powder, re-weigh case, look for proper charge. If good, finish the process for that round. Repeat as necessary for all test rounds. Since my chrono records 9 shots in a string, I usually only load 9 rounds to test.

Although I just recently started wet tumbling, so I'm wondering if that changes results having those extra shiny cases...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never used Aim bullets, but I run both 230 gr Bayou and Berry's plated in my 625 and 1911s.

At nationals last month, 3.8 gr of Clays behind Bayous, approx. 1.255 OAL, chrono'ed just over 780 fps average out of my Ruger SR1911. It was just under 750 out of my 4" S&W 625 (different day, same chrono). I can't tell the difference so I load all my .45s the same, knowing they'll make PF in either gun.

Seems like something is amiss, if you're that far off from what others are seeing -- probably has to be the bullets, the crimp, your powder scale, or the chrono, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree jester. I am using an Lyman's electronic scale and I am not sure it is accurate. I was thinking of picking up a good beam scale to verify my powder charges. Crimping is another area that may be off and I will play with that as well.

Do you have a calibration weight for your scale?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it came with a calibration weight. I have read the manual that came with the scale and have calibrated it properly. There are no fluorescent lights in the room or other electronic items that could interfere with the unit.

I also tried placing a weight on the scale then zeroing it so that the powder charge is measured with the scale in the middle of it's weight range. The results were the same.

Maybe the scale is not the problem.

I will now look at my Shooting Chrony and the procedure I use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it came with a calibration weight. I have read the manual that came with the scale and have calibrated it properly. There are no fluorescent lights in the room or other electronic items that could interfere with the unit.

I also tried placing a weight on the scale then zeroing it so that the powder charge is measured with the scale in the middle of it's weight range. The results were the same.

Maybe the scale is not the problem.

I will now look at my Shooting Chrony and the procedure I use.

I would tend to agree that your scale is not the problem. Do you know anyone else with a chrono? Maybe you can setup both and compare numbers.

I can't comment on clays. I've never used it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can usually go over the max listed in the manuals if you watch your primers closely. I use Clays in my PT-1911 and go from 4.0 to 4.7 with no discernable difference in primer appearance. This is with a 200 gr LSWC. So I doubt you'd have any problem going up a tenth or two to make your desired power factor.

It would help to check your chronograph against another to make sure it is at least "in the ballpark". Also if another handloader is nearby you might check your powder load on their scale/scales.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use 4.4 grains of clays thrown from a Dillon measure. With a zero 230 fmj I get around 820 fps. Yes it is over book max. No pressure signs. Holds x-ring at 50 yds from a rest in my hardball gun.

I go up to 4.6 grains when it is cold outside. Clays is a little temp sensitive.

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just now read that you are using a chrony. I also use a chrony (not sure which one, but it has a printer). When I started using it it seemed odd like it wasn't working right. Then I reread the directions beyond the quick setup and saw that I was trying to Chronograph too late in the day. The setting sun was throwing off the readings and I was shooting too high across the beams.

Now I chrono when I can get the sun pretty much above the chrono and follow the directions. At every major I have been within 2-3 pf of what I get at home. And some of that difference is that I calculate off the lowest bullet weight I check out of 20 random bullet weight measurements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I have extremely good luck with Clay's. Here is my load using a Dillon 650 with Dillon Dies and a Lee Factory Crimp Die & medium crimp.



45 ACP


Roger's Better Bullets 200gr SWC Hard Cast Lead: 4.3 grains Clays; 1.250 OAL; Average PF 171


Bayou 200gr SWC Smokeless Bullets: 4.5 grains Clays, 1.250 OAL; Average PF 172


Berry's 200gr Plated SWC Bullets: 4.5 grains Clays, 1.250 OAL; Average PF 170



I love Clays

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I tried Clays for the first time today. I used 4.0 gr Clays with a Bayou Bullet 230 gr RN out of a S&W government model E-Series 1911 at 1.252 OAL which averaged 795.8 fps for a Power Factor of 182 as the bullets are actually weighing about 229 gr. I also am trying to make major for IPSC, but am not interested in making it that high. Going to try to cut back to 3.8 gr and see what that does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 1.250" you have plenty of room to go shorter. Shorter should increase the pressure -> higher velocity. I've got a Lyman digital scale too...and unfortunately, it's crap. I call it my digital estimator. Since I realized its issues, I bought a Dillon beam scale and I always double-check on the Dillon after getting a ball-park estimate from the Lyman.

Many find that they just can't get major PF with 230gr FMJ and Clays (without going well beyond max). You might end up needing a powder that has more room to work up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I never could make major with Clays in my Spartan, Even at a little over max

what barrel length? IMO, clays is a 230 grainer powder. you can make major with 200s but you are at the borderline. I would recommend a slower burning powder for lighter bullets.

Edited by Agent #1911
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...