Intentionally running into the RO - why not DQ?

[CHA-LEE]

I have seen this happen at a couple of big matches. The Shooter starts to tank stage and then looks for an opportunity to run back up range catching the RO down range so he must stop the shooter or bumps into the RO and stops claiming RO interference. This type of situation happened to me while ROing at a big match a few years ago. The shooter was tanking the stage and then tried to jump back at me so we would touch. I got out of the way and we never touched and he ended up falling on his ass. I could see the shock on his face when he realized that I had actually gotten out of his way and he then got back up and completing the stage. When the stage was done and the range was clear, the only thing I said was "Nice Try....." and he just gave me a smirk as a response which confirmed my assumption that he did it on purpose. Could I have run to the RM and complained about it? Sure, but I didn't. I would much rather do my job and stay out of the way which only leaves the shooter with looking like an idiot when they try those antics.

On the other side of the street. I do see a lot of RO's that are inattentive or simply crowd the shooter while ROing. Doing either of these things will greatly increase your chances of getting bumped into or caught down range. Being too close to the shooter actually inhibits your ability to see the gun and foot faults so staying a good 10 feet back from the shooter is usually best.

[Flatland Shooter]

Being too close to the shooter actually inhibits your ability to see the gun and foot faults so staying a good 10 feet back from the shooter is usually best.

Charlie, has keeping 10 feet back ever caused you any problems with the last shot not getting picked up by the timer?

When I RO, I make sure to give the competitor plenty of room but usually close in near the end of the stage. And unfortunately that is the opportune time for someone to back into the RO.

Thanks.

Bill

[Nik Habicht]

I'm with Cha-Lee in giving shooters some room. As far as picking up the last shot goes -- how close I get depends on the shooter's final position -- if it's awkward and buried in a port, I might want to be in a position to elevate the timer over the wall....

If it's wide open targets, that's a different situation....

I always hold the timer so I can see the display in my peripheral vision -- helpful in stopping the attempt if the timer goes down, and in ensuring that I correctly captured the last shot, no matter when it was fired. (Think terminal gun malfunction -- if you know you have a good time, scored as shot, if you don't reshoot....)

I know, by seeing the numbers flip in my peripheral vision, that the shot I just saw fired, registered....

[Flatland Shooter]

Sounds like its time for a science experiment.

I need to take my timer to the range and see how far it can be from the gun and still get a reliable (make that 100% of the time) reading.

I've always had the timer within a few feet of the gun for the last shot fired but its time I found out if that close is really necessary.

Sorry for the thread drift but the curious want to know.

Bill

[GuildSF4]

I also stay way back from the shooter, not sure about 10 ft, however you can see it on stage 1 of the 2013 SMM3G run by Nils. I keep the timer where I can see it also. (I get closer at the end of the stage for ULSC, and how close depends on stage setup and props.)

Bill how far away depends on the timer, not meaning brand although some brands are very sensitive. I have seen timers of the same brand not pick up shots at the same distance that others do (same sensitivity setting). I have also seen timers fail during a run so that is why I try to keep the timer in my peripheral vision.

[CHA-LEE]

Being too close to the shooter actually inhibits your ability to see the gun and foot faults so staying a good 10 feet back from the shooter is usually best.

Charlie, has keeping 10 feet back ever caused you any problems with the last shot not getting picked up by the timer?

When I RO, I make sure to give the competitor plenty of room but usually close in near the end of the stage. And unfortunately that is the opportune time for someone to back into the RO.

Thanks.

Bill

I hold the timer towards the shooter with the display facing me so I can verify that the time is incrementing with each shot towards the end of the run. If its not picking up the shots then I get a little closer until it starts picking up the shots. All of the timers have sensitivity adjustments and you can fine tune the sensitivity so it can still pick up the shots when you are quite a ways back from the shooter. The only time this becomes an issue is when the stage finishes where the shooter has their gun poked through a port in a solid wall and most of the shot noise is being deflected by the wall. In this situation you have to be pretty close to the shooter to pick up the shots or hang the timer over the wall. In these situations I stage myself in a way to perform a fast exit if the shooter needs to get out of there unexpectedly.

[Sin-ster]

Charlie has the best and easiest solution of all.

RO properly; problem solved, in the vast majority of cases.

[beltjones]

Charlie has the best and easiest solution of all.

RO properly; problem solved, in the vast majority of cases.

I don't think expecting ROs to be perfect is an easy solution. There will always be instances where a competitor can take advantage of an RO. I know when I took my RO class with Troy he gave a lot of really helpful suggestions as to how to RO so that things like this don't occur, but simply saying "RO properly" won't prevent certain shooters from taking advantage.

[Flatland Shooter]

Charlie has the best and easiest solution of all.

RO properly; problem solved, in the vast majority of cases.

I don't think expecting ROs to be perfect is an easy solution. There will always be instances where a competitor can take advantage of an RO. I know when I took my RO class with Troy he gave a lot of really helpful suggestions as to how to RO so that things like this don't occur, but simply saying "RO properly" won't prevent certain shooters from taking advantage.

I took my RO course from Troy and I don't remember this kind of stuff coming up. And I really did pay attention.

As I get older (not yet to the point of buying only ripe bananas), I've tried to take a more active role in local matches by RO'ing and submitting stage designs and such to sort of pay back to the sport. Along with age, I've slowed down. If I know the shooter, I usually have a good idea how fast they will be moving and place myself accordingly. To me, that is part of "RO properly". But once in a while, there is a competitor that surprises me.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, its time for a science experiment. I plan on playing with several timers and see just how close I need to be (on the average) to pick up the shots and make sure I'm at least that close to the shooter. Any closer may not be necessary and just increases the risk that I am interfering with the competitor.

At least it will give me a fighting chance of not getting run over in a match.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Flatland Shooter

[ima45dv8]

I've run an RO over before. It wasn't deliberate but he hadn't had much experience since taking the class and getting certified, and was way too close and lackadaisical when I reversed direction to make up what I thought was a Mike.

When I first took the RO course I asked the instructor about distance from the shooter. He answered that it isn't a foot race. You don't have to be within arms length as some would advise. The only two times necessary to record are the Start Signal and the last shot. The Start Signal is automatic. Be where you can get the last shot and be where you can SEE. Own your stage. KNOW what the shooter is doing.

That can be done from more than 2 feet away.

**There are people who will tell you that you need to be close enough to prevent the shooter from doing something stupid like breaking the 180; that you need to be close enough to restrain them if necessary. They'll advise physically restraining a shooter. That's bullshit.

Experienced shooters do stupid stuff too quickly to stop them and sometimes...many times...the best course of action is to not say anything. They'll correct their muzzle quicker than you can intervene. And if you DO yell Stop quickly enough to halt their action while pointing a blaster UPRANGE, or at themselves, is that really a good idea? No. Once they've got their stuff back in the right direction you can yell Stop and let them know how they just DQ'd themselves.

New shooters do require a higher level of caution and you should be close enough to gently guide them. If they start to turn, never GRAB someone's arm or other portion of their body to steer them downrange. If appropriate use the flat of your hand to deflect their action while telling them, "Muzzle!"

There's a difference between neophyte and sage shooters. Learn the difference and act accordingly.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm sure Mark's considered this already, but keep in mind that the first, second, or 17th shot could be the last shot in the event of a gun malfunction. So an RO ought to know, whenever that occurs that the timer captured (or didn't capture) the last shot, and act accordingly...

[StealthyBlagga]

I don't see this happening often enough to consider it a problem....

This

[JAFO]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, its time for a science experiment. I plan on playing with several timers and see just how close I need to be (on the average) to pick up the shots and make sure I'm at least that close to the shooter. Any closer may not be necessary and just increases the risk that I am interfering with the competitor.

Keep in mind that distance is going to change between, for example, a compensated Open gun, a Major PF Limited gun, and a Minor PF Production gun. It will also change with the presence or absence of walls, overhead baffles, barrels, etc. I think the real problem comes in with blind alleys and retreat stages. Those are areas you've really got to watch your position and hustle to keep out of the way while maintaining sufficient sight of the shooter. We've started using a lot of snow fencing in our wall construction, which helps in some of these cases.

[JimmyZip]

Gotta be careful to avoid picking up the slide closing being recorded as a shot when you are really close too.

[EkuJustice]

It is often the newer or in experienced to that likes to crowd the shooter that it happens to. In that case good luck trying to prove it was intentional if all they have to do is take a step back and bam there they are. If your alert and keep your space you severely limit the chance of it happening without looking pretty darn intentional ie go way out of the way to almost chase the ro. If the shooter is having a terrible run and has really tanked it is when you need to be more alert to it than if they burn it down.

[High Lord Gomer]

I run my timer on almost as sensitive a setting as it will go.

You'll notice the experienced ROs will move the timer near the end of the run to not be hit by any ejected brass while still picking up the shot. They will also move the timer behind them during ULASC to avoid any noise from that process. They will also hide the timer from the scorekeeper if they intend to offer a reshoot for interference in case the RO with the clipboard gets overly enthusiastic and decides to call out the time.