What has happened to the Mossberg 930?

[ben b.]

My Waterfowl with replaced 24" Mossy barrel is running great. Probably 700 rds thru it, if i figure ~10 matches at 50 rds per match, plus sight-ins, break-in, guys test firing, guys borrowing it for a stage or the match, shooting some 5-stand, etc.

[Thecelt]

Mark, thats a very good point, and there is probably no better place to find out the true reliability of a shotgun (or any other firearm) than on a 3 gun forum due to the abuses/uses that these guns get. but let me ask you, in your professional opinion; what can be done on the 930 to increase its reliability? do you think its the overall design that is spotty, or just quality control with parts manufacturing tolerances, etc...?

I think PK said in another thread somewhere...something like...let's get a thousand (or maybe 2K) rounds on a gun before we talk about reliability. I know I ran over 2K through my VM before I used it in a match. A lot of the guys on the "other forums" have a few hundred rounds through their tactical shotguns and they then christen them as the gold standard. If a gun can not go 500 rounds (more is more better), multiple times with no maintenance, I don't even want it in my safe.

[MarkCO]

I wrote a real nice response and managed to dump it by hitting the thumb button on my mouse.

If someone was willing to parts match, re-machine, or better yet make tool steel internals and then polish the whole thing up checking tolerances, you would have a beauty, but it would not be cheap. I think it is a combination of QC and manufacturing processes.

Here is a point to ponder...the manufacturer has to weigh quality, manufacturability, design, price point, marketing, market segment etc. for any product. Actual 3gunners represent a very small part of gun sales, but a segment whose endorsement is highly sought after. Just look at JP rifles. There are at least 30 JPs in friends hands, friends who will NEVER shoot a match, based on my recommendation. There are others with Stags, POFs and Firebirds, etc. Those recommendations are not given out lightly, but are also based on their stated purpose or want for a rifle. Shotguns are no different. An endorsement will sell those shotguns into the hands of thousands who won't shoot a 3Gun match. For the vast majority, they will be happy with that purchase. If the quality increased, along with price, then the ability to profit from that product and marketing would be reduced. For the most part, there is an uneasy tension between gun engineers and pure shooters and the needs and wants of the later often take a back seat to the "advice" of the legal and marketing folks at the manufacturer. Not good or bad, just is.

Edited June 12, 2013 by MarkCO

[co-exprs]

Also, the question is usually "What would you recommend?". It is more than likely true that there are more people out there who are happy with their 930s than not. Same goes for Kimbers. 9 out of 10 Kimber owners are perfectly happy with them. Maybe their expectations are lower. Maybe they never really pushed em hard to see how they will really hold up. Maybe they've never shot anything better and so a 930 is just about perfect. I learned how to drive in my dad's old VW beetle. For a couple years I thought that was the best car on the planet. I don't discount the Mossy because I think it is a bad gun for say, but if you want a recommendation for a 3gun shotgun, reliability is the absolute supreme characteristic. I won't buy another Kimber because 1 in 10 won't shoot. No way I'm gonna search to the ends of the earth to find a JM930 and pay $600 for a 50/50 gamble, which may or may not work after 1500rds. You will never remember the utter hardship you had to put yourself through to save the extra $400-$500 to get a gun which will last, but you will be seriously disgruntled every time you tank a stage cuz your shotgun failed to perform. It aint petty snobbery which makes me take it off the list, but experience. You notice, I've never recommended a Salient Benelli or an over the top Saiga. I recommend something sensible like an SLP, Versamax or a Supernova.

[JesseCJC]

My limited experience sees more SLP issues than 930s but I guess it's all relative. Find what works and keep it is what I always go by. I know I would be furious with a 8-1200 dollar shotgun than needed a break in or gave me fits

Edited June 12, 2013 by JesseCJC

[Griz]

What specifically is out of tolerance on these problem guns? To claim that parts are out of spec and not hardened appropriately, one would have to blueprinted a few guns, wouldn't they?

I still have only seen one specific issue brought up with the 930JM (and note that doesn't seem to be a 930 issue, it seems to be a specific to the trigger job in the 930JM).. The firing pin spring seems to be too weak for some ammo.

All of the other answers I have seen have been vague hand waving that boil down to "it has a low price so it must be cheaply made".

I'm starting to suspect that for some reason there is bad blood between Mossberg and some "3-gun" manufacturers and/or smiths that is at the root of all this bad mouthing with no specific defails. If that's it, give us details. If a company has been behaving badly, they deserve to be punished for it. I steered newbies away from Ruger and S&W for more than a decade based on politics alone.

[co-exprs]

It's not enough that I know 5 guys with the Mossy and all 5 wish they had never purchased the thing. They experienced FTF, FTE, double release from the magazine, broken piston and light primer strikes. Now in order to have a valid reason to exclude it from the recommendation list, I need to have a CMM, steal the prints from Mossberg and do a full tear down, dimesional analysis and a tolerance stack up with root cause development and statafication. Why can't I simply say that I know 5 guys who bought them and all 5 guys hate them. No corporate conspiracy. No brand hating. By saying that they had some parts out of tolerance, Mark was giving Mossberg the benefit of the doubt. If the parts are to print and there is such a high occurance of failure, the only conclusion we would be left with, would be to assume that Mossberg designed the gun to fail. I would much rather blame the problems on parts suppliers sourced by purchasimg and value engineering to make it cheap to build and thus compromised the designed intent of each part.... Or are you suggesting that the 5 guys I know all fabricated failures in a conspiracy to defame Mossberg?

[Griz]

I'm suggesting that your 3rd party anecdotal evidence doesn't match my (and many others) first hand anecdotal evidence.

For all I know, all 5 of those guys in the same local group are doing something like putting grease on the piston based on the advice of a local "guru". Something is obviously wrong with the guns in your local group, but you don't know what, so it seems wildly irresponsible to present speculation as fact.

If I had a gun that unreliable, it would keep going back to the manufacturer until it was fixed or they bought it from me. Surely the shooters you are talking about are not so timid that they will just bend over and accept a defective product?

[JKW]

I'm glad the topic somewhat took off and that there have been so many responses. Thanks to all that have contributed. The posts here do kind of highlight the quandary I alluded to in my first post. How do I in good conscience recommend a 930 to a friend given the grief some people have experienced? Tougher still, how do I tell a friend to stay away when mine works so well for so little (relatively speaking) money. To complicate things, several of these guys looking at my experience come from a different sport in which I worked as technical support for a number of years. They know me as the person often responsible for keeping their gear running through an event which they would have spent quite a lot of money in air fair, entry fees, prior practice, and equipment to be able to participate in. Technical advice was at the very core of the beginnings of the frienships that developed. I know that in the end we are all adults and responsible for our own decisions, but damn, old habits die hard.

I keep reminding my friends that I am a rookie at this game and not very good at it anyway. Maybe I need to encourage more of them to come watch me shoot and the lot of them will soon stop asking me for advice. It could work.

[cajunautoxer]

I'm starting to suspect that for some reason there is bad blood between Mossberg and some "3-gun" manufacturers and/or smiths that is at the root of all this bad mouthing with no specific defails. If that's it, give us details. If a company has been behaving badly, they deserve to be punished for it. I steered newbies away from Ruger and S&W for more than a decade based on politics alone.

Funny you mention this. My shooting buddy and myself have a Pro. He purchased his about a yr ago and mine was purchased in Dec. His started to have ftf issues a couple months ago. Based off what I've read on here. I recommended a gunsmith and it was sent off to have the smith's reliability package and welded lifter done to it. It came back and he had more ftf issue than ever. Sent the Pro to the smith again and they sent it back and now it is completely unreliable. They blame the ammo my friend uses. But why is the Pro in worse shape than before it was sent off the first time? They talked him into a Versa Max.

[T Bacus]

I'm starting to suspect that for some reason there is bad blood between Mossberg and some "3-gun" manufacturers and/or smiths that is at the root of all this bad mouthing with no specific defails. If that's it, give us details. If a company has been behaving badly, they deserve to be punished for it. I steered newbies away from Ruger and S&W for more than a decade based on politics alone.

To ask if brand loyalty or market dislike for a particular brand has anything to do with a shotguns use in 3 gun is off the mark, I think. It has been my experience over the years ( and I've been doing this nearly 30 years) that competition shooters are by far the least affected by brand loyalty, ready to jump ship in a minute if something truly better comes along.

If you want to discount anecdotal evidence that is fine. I have no idea what the specific problems with the 930 might be, nor do I care. When I'm at a match and someone has a problem during a stage I usually look to see what gun their using. Of the 'big four' Benelli, Versamax, SLP and 930, I see far more problems occurring with the 930's than with any of the others. What the problem might be is of no concern to me, it's either working or it's not, and right now it seems like a great deal of the time, if it's a 930, it's not.

[MarkCO]

Griz, you can "suspect" but you would still be wrong.

[co-exprs]

It is also not "wildly irresponsible" to advise caution regarding a product which gets mixed reviews in regards to reliablity. None of my 5 reference shooters are top tier competitors (although 2 of them are working hard to get there). Also to suggest that the consumers are some how at fault because they may or may not have sent them back to the manufacturer for warrantee work is nothing more than a distraction from the fact that the product doesn't work as intended. We have a very short 3 gun season in Colorado. If I shoot all of the matches available to me, I will only get in about 10 or so per year between April and Sept'ish. For us, reliability is paramount as a defective or broken shotgun can leave you warming the bench for most of the season. I don't need empirical data to know that caution is warranted with the 930. Until someone feels emotionally attached enough to the 930 to put in the time to figure out the problems and offer solutions, then the question will remain unanswered. Benny already gave it the college try and walked away.

[Griz]

Since no-one knows what specifically is wrong with any of these unreliable guns, I'm willing to offer $350 shipped for one that hasn't been monkeyed with and has been unreliable out of the box. I paid $525 for my 930jm that runs flawlessly, so $350 seems like a more than fair price to me for a defective gun that doesn't run and that the best in the business allegedly can't figure out. You'll get $350 instead of taking a total loss.

If someone is willing to unload their problem child on a naive sucker like me, I'll either figure out the issue and correct it or join the group think that says "I don't know what is wrong with it, but I know it's a piece of junk." PM me and I'll have a USPS MO on the way ASAP.

[Travtastik]

I have seen more 930s choke then any other gun. I also have to say there are far more 930s at the matches then other guns. If you say that 1 out of 5 guns regardless of brand will fail and 20 shooters are running 930s then 4 of them should choke. If there are more of them out there it's a greater chance to see one of them go down.

[Alaskapopo]

It is easily to get emotionally wrapped up in their choice of weapons. From what I have seen of Mossbergs at matches they are very hit or miss. My own experience with Mossberg is their pumps and I got 2 lemons and never tried for a third time.

[JimmyZip]

Since no-one knows what specifically is wrong with any of these unreliable guns, I'm willing to offer $350 shipped for one that hasn't been monkeyed with and has been unreliable out of the box. I paid $525 for my 930jm that runs flawlessly, so $350 seems like a more than fair price to me for a defective gun that doesn't run and that the best in the business allegedly can't figure out. You'll get $350 instead of taking a total loss.

If someone is willing to unload their problem child on a naive sucker like me, I'll either figure out the issue and correct it or join the group think that says "I don't know what is wrong with it, but I know it's a piece of junk." PM me and I'll have a USPS MO on the way ASAP.

If anyone takes you up on this, please post your findings and keep us informed.

[Jesse Tischauser]

When I first started I didn't even know how to properly lube and clean my shotgun much less disassemble it and polish it up so it would run better.

Newbs buy the cheapest gun they can find and put the cheapest ammo the can find and expect it to run 100%. Not gonna happen with a shotgun no matter what the brand.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[mark carr]

I just got a JM pro although I could get it to double feed dummy's by hand but it did just fine live fire and it has ran good so far only 75rds I didn't like the mag tube ext the ID of the tube ext was larger than the mag tube itself I replaced it with a 10 shot choat no hang up's now .Its allot lighter than i am used to so it jumps around a little running plates but not to bad and I tried some slugs and it had good accuracy .I can't stand field stocks so I switched stock to a monti carlo style 1 1/2" drop at comb produced a 50/50 pattern for me that seemed pretty good for this game

[gdboytyler]

...I can't stand field stocks so I switched stock to a monti carlo style 1 1/2" drop at comb produced a 50/50 pattern for me that seemed pretty good for this game

I took a skeet class and the instructor told me the 930 stock didn't fit well. The instructor recommended http://www.meadowindustries.com/gunstocks.html which was only $25 and it has worked out well.

Since I shoot open, sticking a red dot on the 930 has made slug shooting accurate. I've been using a 50 yd zero.

[bani]

It is also not "wildly irresponsible" to advise caution regarding a product which gets mixed reviews in regards to reliablity. None of my 5 reference shooters are top tier competitors (although 2 of them are working hard to get there). Also to suggest that the consumers are some how at fault because they may or may not have sent them back to the manufacturer for warrantee work is nothing more than a distraction from the fact that the product doesn't work as intended. We have a very short 3 gun season in Colorado. If I shoot all of the matches available to me, I will only get in about 10 or so per year between April and Sept'ish. For us, reliability is paramount as a defective or broken shotgun can leave you warming the bench for most of the season. I don't need empirical data to know that caution is warranted with the 930. Until someone feels emotionally attached enough to the 930 to put in the time to figure out the problems and offer solutions, then the question will remain unanswered. Benny already gave it the college try and walked away.

i'll be happy to buy those defective 930s. offer same as Griz - $350. you now have multiple buyers interested in taking these defective 930s off their hands.

[T Bacus]

I'll be happy to buy those defective 930s. offer same as Griz - $350. you now have multiple buyers interested in taking these defective 930s off their hands.

I don't know if you'll get any takers, but the price you're offering seems about right.

[T Bacus]

To be fair, I shot a 3 gun yesterday at Peacemaker in West Virginia and there was a shooter in my squad with a brand new Versamax, shooting Winchester AAs. The gun was suffering multiple fails to feed. It would fire and eject fine, but the bolt stopped short of battery at least 8 or 10 times.

[fishsticks]

I'm certianly no expert, but there are several factors that COULD explain some of this.

Modifications and upkeep.

It sort of reminds me of the Glock reliability threads - there are two camps, it runs and runs vs, it fails in xyz way. When you really dig in, the 100% reliable are stock or nearly so. The ones that don't have either been significantly modded, or not maintained.

I don't have a dog in the fight - I have a Benelli M2 that was originally bought for hunting, and now does double duty for the few 3gun shoots I can get to, and it just runs.

[bani]

I'll be happy to buy those defective 930s. offer same as Griz - $350. you now have multiple buyers interested in taking these defective 930s off their hands.

I don't know if you'll get any takers, but the price you're offering seems about right.

if these 5 shooters really have defective 930s, there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't take us up on this offer. after all, their 930s are just paperweights right now. right? at least this way they'll get some money they can put towards a working shotgun. who else would pay $350 for a broken shotgun?