Let's play a game

[38supPat]

Here's a stage I set up in practice today. Which way would you shoot it. Post your answers and after we have a few I'll post the videos of some of the ways I shot it and tell you which was fastest for me.

The targets had to be shot from the boxes shown. The two targets on the left and the target at the back from Box A and the two remaining targets from Box B

[38supPat]

Ok 71 views and no responses. Lets try posting the videos and see if we get some replies.

Far target first, full and then partial with no shoot

Far, partial, full target

[38supPat]

Partial, full, far

Full, Partial, far

[spanky]

Knowing my shooting style I'd either shoot partial, far then full or far, partial then full. I'll try to set it up this week and see how it goes.

Edited June 9, 2013 by spanky

[spanky]

How were your Times/Points/HFs on each run, Pat?

[38supPat]

Well I'm waiting for more posts to reveal that but all runs were down 2-3 points at most. A couple were all A's.

I will say that all runs were within half a second of each other no matter which way I shot it.

[ger]

i'll bite,

Full, partial, far

[38supPat]

i'll bite,

Full, partial, far

Ok, Why?

[JYC405]

OK-- I would take the open first then partial and far last. For me I can shoot with one foot in box on open target while my other foot is in the air getting placed in time for the harder shot (partial target) then go for the far shots making sure I don't leave box "A" to soon, then finish in box B with open target first.

[38supPat]

Alright, here's the times in order of the videos as posted:

1) 7.49

2) 6.95

3) 7.37

4) 7.01

How these broke down for me:

Since it's pretty obvious that the last two targets at the second position are shot full target first and then partial, I ran that way on every run.

1) 7.49 seconds. Setting up to take the far target first felt uncomfortable for me. They were the hardest shots in the stage and really required a good set up and settle in before shooting. I usually broke the shot around 2.2 seconds. and usually dropped one or two C's doing it this way. the transition to the full target was easy about a .6 and shot this target all A's on every run, the transition to the partial was a little harder but not a lot of gun movement so I was around .35. and movement to the last box was a bit longer because I had to stay in position to fire the last two shots before leaving.

2) 6.95 seconds. Again setting up on the far target felt uncomfortable and tended to make me want to rush the shots, usually dropped a couple of points. Overall the rest of the splits and transitions didn't change much, lost a little going to the partial and then picked up some going to the full. Where I picked up the half second on this run though was being able to hit the full target as I was leaving the box, this made the movement time to the second position much quicker. Consequently this gave me the fastest run of all the plans (with one exception, I'll explain later)

3) 7.37 seconds. Setting up on the partial coming into the first position gave me a slightly faster first shot than shooting the far target first, a 2.1 vs. a 2.2, and always 2 A's, The transition to the full target was of course easy and the transition to the far was a bit slower, usually around a .7. Again what slowed this run up was the need to be solid in position when entering the box to avoid dropping a no-shoot and before leaving the box because of the harder shot.

4) 7.01 seconds. Being able to shoot the full target entering the box gave me an early start to the shooting and usually the first shot broke at 1.8 seconds. the transitions were about the same, had to slow down a bit to the partial and the big swing to the far target. I had to stay solid to shoot the far target before leaving but this plan always produced the best hits on the far target and there was time gained by getting shooting early in the first box. While this wasn't the fastest way, it was close enough with better points that if I was faced with this in a real stage this would be my plan. The exception mentioned above came with this plan. On one run I was able to engage the far target while leaving the box which gave me a considerable time advantage. I hit a D doing this but the 6.62 second time more than made up for that (the D was the only points I dropped on this run). I would not try this in a match until I had considerably more practice on hitting a 20m target while leaving a position, even then its a bit risky. I would rather guarantee the A than risk dropping a miss or having to step back to take another shot.

[38supPat]

Best to worst HF were 6.9 to 6.4 and 6.4 is still a 92% and only 4 match points from best to worst. I'll take those 4 match points any day but I was surprised at overall how little difference there was between the plans.

[stick]

From what I saw, I would shoot them closer to farther. Meaning closer targets from first box, reload while moving to second box then far targets. I shoot production so I think in groups of 8-10 rounds.

[38supPat]

The whole stage was only 10 rounds and the far target had to be shot from the first box

[CHA-LEE]

Full, Partial Far.

Here is my reasoning. Taking the full target first gives you more fudge room to engage it while setting into the box, by the time you are done with the full target your stance should be settled enough to shoot the partial aggressively AND transition aggressively to the far target.

In the first box target situation I think its far more important to set your natural point of aim biased towards the far target. The far target is the hardest shot (risk losing the most points) and the closer our NPA is to that target the easier it would be to transition to it and engage it aggressively. Being artificially biased towards the far target in your stance also helps stage your exit better to work with an aggressive push off with the right leg to exit the position.

[38supPat]

That's pretty much how it worked for me, I didn't really set up my NPA on the far target but I found I didn't really have to. To me it was more of a feel issue. Taking the far target first and having to take the time to set into position for it made me feel like rushing to get the shots off because it felt like it was taking forever, which was really only a tenth of a second. But taking the full target coming into the box and setting up as I engaged it made me feel like I was already set by the time I got to the harder shots and I didn't feel rushed so I was able to shoot all A's. It is interesting to note that as long as I either took the full target while stepping into the box or as I was stepping out of the box, it didn't matter what else I did the time was almost identical. It was the points shot that made the difference.

[CHA-LEE]

You need points to divide by time so how long it takes is only half of the equation

I always try to make decisions like this in a way that will allow me to maximize points and minimize risk of losing points. Then simply let the shooting happen at whatever pace it wants to go.

[Chuckdee]

Full, partial, far..

I agree with Cha-Lee for the exact same reasons. I always think about how I'll be firing my first and last shots in each position. Starting with the full target up close allows you to fire 2 shots when settling down for the partial and far shot. Depending on your skill level, you may be able to start creeping out of the box while shooting the far target in the first position.

I also want to mention that you may be able to start firing shots more quickly if you focused a little on your footwork. In the first box, you were fine stepping in with your left leg, but the exit looked a little slow (it could be faster). Give yourself a slight lean forward so you don't have to take two steps to start moving forward. Stepping in the second box with your right leg first would have helped a little also. If you look at your position in the box, it looks tight. Stepping in with your right leg first would help you get into a wider, more comfortable stance and you would be able to fire shots at a close up full target as soon as you left foot is about to touch down in the box.

I record myself often and it really helps me see how these little changes help my times and accuacy.

Hope this helps..

[38supPat]

I also want to mention that you may be able to start firing shots more quickly if you focused a little on your footwork. In the first box, you were fine stepping in with your left leg, but the exit looked a little slow (it could be faster). Give yourself a slight lean forward so you don't have to take two steps to start moving forward. Stepping in the second box with your right leg first would have helped a little also. If you look at your position in the box, it looks tight. Stepping in with your right leg first would help you get into a wider, more comfortable stance and you would be able to fire shots at a close up full target as soon as you left foot is about to touch down in the box.

Are you referring to the videos posted here? I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I reviewed each one in slow motion. In each case the exit was slow if I was taking a hard shot last although on one where I shoot the far target last I start to move as I fire the shot which isn't ideal, on the one run where I leave on the full target my foot leaves the ground between the two shots on the full target. In no case did I take two steps to get moving, the first step on every video was one step with the left foot that landed on the corner of the box as I pushed off. In the run where I shoot the full target entering I fire the first shot before my right foot hits the ground and the second as it touches down.

In the second box I again step in with the left foot and the first shot is fired before the right foot touches down and the second one as it lands. In the last video the first shot fires just as the foot leaves the ground outside the box, its actually pretty close to call but it appears it cleared the ground and didn't fault.

[Chuckdee]

Sorry, my comments were focused on the last video (Full,Partial,Far) since this was my preferred way of shooting it. You're right you didn't take two steps to get moving out of the second box, but I think I was trying to say that there is a slight movement that slowed your transition out of the first box. Look at your movement coming out of the first box in the second video (Far, Partial, Full). That was really nice, smooth, and fast. Of course the target is much closer and easier to shoot at, but it would be great to be able to do that exiting off of a far target...

[Chuckdee]

In regards to stepping in on the second box on your particular stage layout, since you are shooting targets to your right, if you are stepping in with your left leg first, that means you have to step into the box at a farther point (at least 50-75% into the box) to have enough room for your right foot. That can cause you to faulter trying to plant your stance. I noticed (because I shoot irons) that my accuracy can drop dramatically if I'm not smooth in these cases. In a situations like this, I come in the box with my right foot about 25% of the way in the box and start planting it down before my left leg is in the box. My left leg will land around 75% of the way into the box. You can also (of course) have you gun on target ready to fire while your left foot is touching down..

Sorry, it is hard to explain here and maybe it is a little much. I like to practice footwork because I believe it makes a huge difference..

Try it out though next time you are practicing..

[38supPat]

Sorry, my comments were focused on the last video (Full,Partial,Far) since this was my preferred way of shooting it. You're right you didn't take two steps to get moving out of the second box, but I think I was trying to say that there is a slight movement that slowed your transition out of the first box. Look at your movement coming out of the first box in the second video (Far, Partial, Full). That was really nice, smooth, and fast. Of course the target is much closer and easier to shoot at, but it would be great to be able to do that exiting off of a far target...

That's the difference between exiting on an easy target and a hard one and you need to be able to perform both. You won't always be able to enter AND leave on and easy target so you have to make a choice. That was the whole point to this drill.

[38supPat]

In regards to stepping in on the second box on your particular stage layout, since you are shooting targets to your right, if you are stepping in with your left leg first, that means you have to step into the box at a farther point (at least 50-75% into the box) to have enough room for your right foot. That can cause you to faulter trying to plant your stance. I noticed (because I shoot irons) that my accuracy can drop dramatically if I'm not smooth in these cases. In a situations like this, I come in the box with my right foot about 25% of the way in the box and start planting it down before my left leg is in the box. My left leg will land around 75% of the way into the box. You can also (of course) have you gun on target ready to fire while your left foot is touching down..

Sorry, it is hard to explain here and maybe it is a little much. I like to practice footwork because I believe it makes a huge difference..

Try it out though next time you are practicing..

If you watch closely I place my right foot just outside the box and use this time to get the gun aligned on the target as I step across with the left which does land roughly in the middle of the box leaving lots of rooms or the right. All I have to do is lift the right and put it down inside the box.

[ger]

i'll bite,

Full, partial, far

Ok, Why?

oops, a bit late

actually Cha Lees 1st paragraph was my thinking, but I can't say I thought much past that in regards to 2nd paragraph