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Extended Mag Release on XD and XDm guns in Production....


Thomas H

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The other day at a match I saw an XD with an extended magazine release being used on a Production division gun. I had not thought that any Production-list XD or XDm had an extended magazine release, so I emailed a certain manufacturer of extended mag releases to ask them what gun on the approved list had an extended magazine release, as their website shop said, regarding their extended magazine release:

"This is extended .1" longer than the factory release..." "...USPSA Production, Limited, and Open approved and IDPA ESP Approved.*"

After I emailed, they wrote me back and said:

"The rules state the parts must be in the factory catalog (not come standard on factory guns) and they [springfield] sell pistols with them through their custom shop complete with the magazine release. We have sent all out "production legal" parts to the USPSA NROI to get their approval, so if you see a part on our website that says it is production legal, it has been given the official blessing of the NROI."

Except Appendix D4 in the rulebook says:

"Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OEM parts which are offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below. Examples of external components which may only be replaced with OEM parts include (but are not limited to): magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties and triggers.

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used.

A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

Externally-visible parts from “custom shop” guns will only be considered “OEM parts” if the custom shop gun is on the NROI list of approved Production guns."

...so it doesn't seem to me that they are correct in their understanding of the rules---it may be in Springfield's factory catalog, but it isn't offered on that particular gun, and the extended magazine release doesn't seem to be offered on any other firearm from Springfield that is on the Production list. (That I can find. Am I wrong about that? Anyone know?)

The person who owns the gun is a friend of mine, and she is planning on shooting an Area match very soon, and I don't want to see her bumped to Open. I also am going to be working a Sectional and Area match soon, and want to be able to cite the rules correctly if it becomes necessary. (I hope it doesn't become necessary.)

Appendix D4 says that the part must be offered either on that gun, or on another gun from the Production-approved list. But the parts manufacturer says that their parts were sent to NROI and given approval, and that it merely has to be in the factory catalog, as opposed to actually being offered on an approved gun. I can't seem to find any approved gun that has an extended magazine release like that. (If there is one, then that answers my question.)

So, my question is: Is an extended magazine release allowed on XD and XDm guns for use in Production division?

(If someone knows a Springfield XD/XDm version on the Production list that COMES with an extended mag release, please tell me since that'll solve the problem.)

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It seems like it all comes down to how Springfield classifies their guns, do they consider a Springfield custom shop XDm to be the same model as a stock XDm? If so then the extended mag release is available on an approved model since they consider them the same model (XDm 5.25 9mm = Custom shop XDm 5.25 9mm).

I have wondered about the trigger available for the XDm (I can't remember the manufacturer) that replaces the actual external trigger. It is supposedly production legal on the same basis.

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It seems like it all comes down to how Springfield classifies their guns, do they consider a Springfield custom shop XDm to be the same model as a stock XDm? If so then the extended mag release is available on an approved model since they consider them the same model (XDm 5.25 9mm = Custom shop XDm 5.25 9mm).

Does Springfield charge the same for price for both guns? :devil: If not, then XDm 5.25 9mm =/= Custom shop XDm 5.25 9mm.

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I think the key if whether it's offered on a Production-approved gun. Can you call Springfield and order an XDm with an extended mag release from their custom shop? It's still an XDm.

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TGO uses one and they also got the plastic aftermarket trigger approved and they have been used in EVERY major since the XD came out and been used by Rob. Look in the NROI rulings (or call them) and they will verify what you have already been told. Amidon is pretty good at answering messages. PS. You can buy an XD or XDM with the plastic trigger w/ over-travel stop and magazine release, their custom shop can give you the part number.

Edited by Loves2Shoot
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Here is is from NROI.org

17) I have an approved Production Division gun, and the manufacturer now offers a cool mag-release button on their “custom shop” versions of that gun. Can I use that mag-release button, since it is “an OEM part”?

ANSWER: It depends. An external part which extends only the length of the magazine-release button is specifically allowed in section 21.6 of the 2009 interpretation, whether the part is OEM or aftermarket. If the part provides a larger surface area (a big head, a button, a paddle, etc) or is different than the original part in any dimension other than length, the part is only permitted if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

Note that an internal modification to a magazine-release mechanism which results in shifting the magazine-release laterally (i.e., making the part stick out further on one side of the gun) would be considered an “internal modification”, and is allowed.

Also note that parts from “custom shop” guns are only considered “OEM parts” if the “custom shop” model is on the NROI list of approved guns. If NROI has not certified the “custom shop” gun for USPSA Production Division, using a custom-shop part may be an “external modification”, resulting in a “new/unapproved model” which would be illegal for USPSA Production Division. Contact NROI for an official ruling before switching to the new part.

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"Note that an internal modification to a magazine-release mechanism which results in shifting the magazine-release laterally (i.e., making the part stick out further on one side of the gun) would be considered an “internal modification”, and is allowed."

It seems counter-intuitive to consider an externally visible (and visibly different) part to be an internal modification, but OK.

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Here is is from NROI.org

17) I have an approved Production Division gun, and the manufacturer now offers a cool mag-release button on their “custom shop” versions of that gun. Can I use that mag-release button, since it is “an OEM part”?

ANSWER: It depends. An external part which extends only the length of the magazine-release button is specifically allowed in section 21.6 of the 2009 interpretation, whether the part is OEM or aftermarket. If the part provides a larger surface area (a big head, a button, a paddle, etc) or is different than the original part in any dimension other than length, the part is only permitted if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

Note that an internal modification to a magazine-release mechanism which results in shifting the magazine-release laterally (i.e., making the part stick out further on one side of the gun) would be considered an “internal modification”, and is allowed.

Also note that parts from “custom shop” guns are only considered “OEM parts” if the “custom shop” model is on the NROI list of approved guns. If NROI has not certified the “custom shop” gun for USPSA Production Division, using a custom-shop part may be an “external modification”, resulting in a “new/unapproved model” which would be illegal for USPSA Production Division. Contact NROI for an official ruling before switching to the new part.

Where exactly is this from? I can't seem to find it among the NROI rulings, or anywhere on the USPSA site. I do see that it quotes a date from 2009, and we've had several revisions to the Production rules since then.

Here's the thing---just because the custom shop has extra parts that can go on guns doesn't mean that any of those specific models of guns are approved on the Production list. As such, just because you can get one that way doesn't mean it is legal for Production. And what is written above says specifically that the length of the magazine release may not be larger.

There is one thing written above that I've never seen before, which is the "Note that an internal modification to a magazine-release mechanism which results in shifting the magazine-release laterally (i.e., making the part stick out further on one side of the gun) would be considered an “internal modification”, and is allowed." part----and I'm thinking that if this were true for the magazine release that I saw, then the OTHER side of it wouldn't have been the standard length---it should have been shorter. Since it wasn't, that doesn't seem likely.

So again, my question comes back to: What Production-approved XD or XDm comes standard with an extended magazine release?

I note that I have emailed Amidon about this, and he said that he has not given any particular company specific approval for aftermarket parts of this type, and no parts have been sent to him for said approval. He is checking with Springfield regarding this. When he replies to me, if I have his permission, I will copy his response here.

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As written above, it comes from NROI.org http://www.nroi.org/archives/2009/04/frequently_aske.html

Here it is from USPSA's website: http://uspsa.org/rules/2009_Production_Rules_Revisions.pdf

It says the release can be longer, not a larger diameter head.

The part we carry is a factory specification part, and Production Nationals 6 years ago in OK, and I showed it to him and he stated, "As long as it matches the OEM specs it is legal." The same way any Glock release that copies the factory G34 release can be used in any other Glock.

Per the last line of the ruling, contacting them is what you should do, but I know for a fact the release has been used in every Major match since the XD has come out and was in use by Rob and at one time they had a ruling up on the trigger with the custom shop over travel stop specifically allowing it. This has been a non issue for at least 6 years.

If they change the ruling, then we'll modify the release to stick out .100 further by moving the notch on the inside and shorten the overall length, and walla, same thing since you don't use the off side to activate the release and they can be flopped whichever way you want.

Edited by Loves2Shoot
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As written above, it comes from NROI.org http://www.nroi.org/archives/2009/04/frequently_aske.html

Here it is from USPSA's website: http://uspsa.org/rules/2009_Production_Rules_Revisions.pdf

It says the release can be longer, not a larger diameter head.

The part we carry is a factory specification part, and Production Nationals 6 years ago in OK, and I showed it to him and he stated, "As long as it matches the OEM specs it is legal." The same way any Glock release that copies the factory G34 release can be used in any other Glock.

Per the last line of the ruling, contacting them is what you should do, but I know for a fact the release has been used in every Major match since the XD has come out and was in use by Rob and at one time they had a ruling up on the trigger with the custom shop over travel stop specifically allowing it. This has been a non issue for at least 6 years.

If they change the ruling, then we'll modify the release to stick out .100 further by moving the notch on the inside and shorten the overall length, and walla, same thing since you don't use the off side to activate the release and they can be flopped whichever way you want.

Thanks for the link---when you go to "www.nroi.org" it tells you that the NROI site has moved and that it is now part of the www.uspsa.org web page, so I couldn't find the material you were talking about.

Your link from the USPSA website contains the section of the rules that I originally quoted.

"Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OEM parts which are offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below."

"A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun."

"Externally-visible parts from “custom shop” guns will only be considered “OEM parts” if the custom-shop gun is on the NROI list of approved Production guns."

You say: "The same way any Glock release that copies the factory G34 release can be used in any other Glock."

---this works because the G34 comes from the factory with an extended mag release, and the factory G34 is on the Production approved list. It isn't merely because Glock makes the part, and it fits on other Glocks. Hence my question---what factory XD or XDm on the Production list comes with an extended mag release?

I'm not trying to get any particular manufacturer in trouble---I was hoping that someone could simply point me to the approved gun that used the extended release. The fact that it has been used in the past doesn't actually mean it follows the rules, which is why I was asking here for the specific approved gun---because on my friend's gun, the gun is black and the VERY OBVIOUS extended mag release is bright silver. I don't want her getting bumped to Open for a part that obviously didn't come originally on the gun, so if someone could simply tell me what approved gun on the Production list uses said release, I'll tell her and she'll be fine.

If she CAN'T do that, and no one can seem to come up with an approved gun, then she's going to have trouble, yes? The rules say it has to be an OEM or matching aftermarket part from a gun on the approved Production list. If can't merely be a part that they happen to offer.

What gun is it?

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XD Tactical, there you go. It has been legal ever since they have been using THAT model. Our release matches the OEM mag release, as that is where we got the specs and I'm friends with the guy who first made the OEM mag release for Springfield. ANY experienced RO will not be surprised by seeing the release.

I think you are mistaking it "came with the gun" and "is legal for Production Division." If the factory does it, and if you had some experience with IPSC rule and evolution of the rules in general, it isn't so mysterious. I'm sure you can spend some time reading though the forums and finding the discussions.

Edited by Loves2Shoot
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XD Tactical, there you go. It has been legal ever since they have been using THAT model. Our release matches the OEM mag release, as that is where we got the specs and I'm friends with the guy who first made the OEM mag release for Springfield. ANY experienced RO will not be surprised by seeing the release.

I think you are mistaking it "came with the gun" and "is legal for Production Division." If the factory does it, and if you had some experience with IPSC rule and evolution of the rules in general, it isn't so mysterious. I'm sure you can spend some time reading though the forums and finding the discussions.

XD Tactical? Um---my wife owns both the XD 5" Tactical in 9mm and in .45acp, and neither comes with an extended mag release, at least certainly not anything like I saw in the match the other day. So you are saying that the XD Tactical comes standard with an extended mag release? (As opposed to "we can buy an extended mag release from the custom shop to put on it"?)

Again, I'm simply trying to find the gun that makes this legal. Is it the XD Tactical? (Then my wife got gypped. Hm. A friend of mine bought a different XD Tactical 5" in 9mm a couple of months ago---it doesn't have an extended mag release either.)

You say: I think you are mistaking it "came with the gun" and "is legal for Production Division."

You yourself have quoted the rules that says OEM parts, and match aftermarket parts, are legal on Production guns IF they match parts that come on guns approved for Production division. I'm curious as to why you seem to keep saying that if a part is made by the company, it is legal for Production when that is not what the rules say.

You also say: "If the factory does it, and if you had some experience with IPSC rule and evolution of the rules in general, it isn't so mysterious. I'm sure you can spend some time reading though the forums and finding the discussions."

The handy thing about the rules---is that they are there in black and white, in the rulebook and the rulings.

It says:

"Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OEM parts which are offered on the specific model of gun or another approved gun from the same manufacturer except as specifically clarified below."

"A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun."

"Externally-visible parts from “custom shop” guns will only be considered “OEM parts” if the custom-shop gun is on the NROI list of approved Production guns."

So---what gun on the NROI-approved Production list has an extended mag release suitable for use on the XD and XDm? If someone could just tell me that, we'd be fine. Loves2Shoot says the XD Tactical, but the factory specimens I've seen don't have an extended mag release---is that the gun, though, and a version of it with that mag release (2000 models produced, form submitted, etc) is on the list?

Here's the list of Springfield guns approved for Production division:

"P9 (32.2 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 4" (29 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 5" (31 oz.), XD Service model 357SIG 4" (26 oz.), XD Service Model 40S&W 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45ACP 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45GAP 4" (28.8 oz.), XD Service model 9mm 4" (28 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 40S&W 3" (23 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 9mm 3" (26 oz.), XD Tactical Model 357SIG 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 40 S&W 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45ACP 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45GAP 5" (31 oz.), XD Tactical Model 9mm 5" (32 oz.), XDM 40 Cal. 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDM 40S&W 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 45 ACP 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDm 525 C 45 Auto 5.25' barrel (32 oz.), XDm 525 C .40S&W 5.25" barrel (32 oz.), XDM 9mm 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 9mm 4.5" Barrel (28 oz.), XDm Model 525 C 9mm 5.25" Barre (29 oz.)"

Which one is it?

P9 is out, none of the service models, compacts, or sub-compacts come with it. The XD Tacticals that I've seen in 9mm and .45acp don't have it. It is one of the XDms? The 5.25s?

If it IS the XD Tactical, where can you buy one with an extended mag release? (That isn't a custom shop gun?)

Edited by Thomas H
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Does the mag release in question have a button or paddle? If it ONLY changes the length of the mag release, 21.6 doesn't require it to be on an approved model of the gun, only that it is factory/OEM.

• A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

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Here is is from NROI.org

17) I have an approved Production Division gun, and the manufacturer now offers a cool mag-release button on their “custom shop” versions of that gun. Can I use that mag-release button, since it is “an OEM part”?

ANSWER: It depends. An external part which extends only the length of the magazine-release button is specifically allowed in section 21.6 of the 2009 interpretation, whether the part is OEM or aftermarket. If the part provides a larger surface area (a big head, a button, a paddle, etc) or is different than the original part in any dimension other than length, the part is only permitted if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

Note that an internal modification to a magazine-release mechanism which results in shifting the magazine-release laterally (i.e., making the part stick out further on one side of the gun) would be considered an “internal modification”, and is allowed.

Also note that parts from “custom shop” guns are only considered “OEM parts” if the “custom shop” model is on the NROI list of approved guns. If NROI has not certified the “custom shop” gun for USPSA Production Division, using a custom-shop part may be an “external modification”, resulting in a “new/unapproved model” which would be illegal for USPSA Production Division. Contact NROI for an official ruling before switching to the new part.

Where is the official and published 2009 interpretation of 21.6 which allows the aftermarket extended magazine release? I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned, and I missed it. Reading the interpretation will clear things up, hopefully.

Edit: I'm also hoping the official interpretation will clear things up in regards to OEM magazine releases. The way I'm reading (interpreting) 21.6 OEM magazine releases that only extend the length are allowed, whether on a approved gun or not, but hopefully the official interpretation will clear things up for those that have their doubts.

Edit again: Found the interpretation, see post below.

Edited by grapemeister
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Does the mag release in question have a button or paddle? If it ONLY changes the length of the mag release, 21.6 doesn't require it to be on an approved model of the gun, only that it is factory/OEM.

• A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

"...which extends only the length of the magazine release." ---doesn't that mean "it can't be longer than what is normally on the gun"? It doesn't say "A factory/OEM magazine release of any length..."

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Does it look like the one on the 5.25 Competition?

<a data-cke-saved-href="" href="" "="">http://the-m-factor.com/html/innovation.html'> http://the-m-factor.com/html/innovation.html

The one I have fired seemed to have a longer release then the regular XD.

Nope. The contour of the gun is narrower there, so it makes the release seem to stick out more. But at least on the link you sent, the release isn't actually extended, and is equal on both sides.

The mag release I'm talking about is normal on one side of the gun, and noticeably extended on the other side. (An extra .1" or so, which sounds small, but really isn't. It is a great part for making mag releases easier without being so large that it causes accidental releases.)

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I'll note that if someone can simply tell me what approved gun this appears on, that would be great. I don't want to create an issue trying to bump people to Open, I just want to be able to justify the extended release.

And while a number of people are saying that it doesn't have to be on an approved gun, I'll wait for Amidon's response before I accept that one. No offense, but I remember clearly that the justification for being able to use the Glock extended mag release on other Glocks came about only after the G34 (with its extended mag release being standard from the factory) was accepted on the approved list.

If that changed, or I'm wrong, I'll definitely post it here. But THAT one, I'm going to want to hear directly from NROI. (Like I said, if I get his permission, I'll post Amidon's direct response.)

(Edited because apparently I typo repeatedly.)

Edited by Thomas H
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Just found it at NROI's website. It's in pretty clear black and white. Aftermarket and OEM extended magazine releases are legal per the official interpretation.

"However, it's appears that a part, including extended magazine releases, from custom shop guns aren't legal unless their on the approved list."

Edit: I think I got that part wrong (misinterpreted), in regards to custom shop guns. The parts from a custom shop gun aren't considered to be OEM unless the gun is on the approved list. I guess a part from a custom shop gun that's not on the list would be considered aftermarket.

Hope this helps.

Edited by grapemeister
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Thomas

I would read it as - as long as the release has the same size button area / profile and the only change is the extended length then legal

If the button size / profile is changed - not legal unless it comes on an approved gun from the factory.

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Does the mag release in question have a button or paddle? If it ONLY changes the length of the mag release, 21.6 doesn't require it to be on an approved model of the gun, only that it is factory/OEM.

• A factory/OEM magazine release which extends only the length of the magazine release may be used. A magazine release which provides larger surface area (paddles, buttons) may only be used if it is an OEM part available on an approved model of gun.

"...which extends only the length of the magazine release." ---doesn't that mean "it can't be longer than what is normally on the gun"? It doesn't say "A factory/OEM magazine release of any length..."

IMO Extends = longer.

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Some of the confusion may be coming from the fact that Springfield's Custom Shop offers package upgrades to factory models. They do not designate Custom Shop models. CZ, on the other hand, offers the standard 75B and the Custom Shop 75B Shadow as different guns, and as such they're both listed on the approved list.

Springfield's XD/XDm Custom Order Sheet states (emphasis mine):

2. XD®/XD(M)® Production Package: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $575.00

Competition action job (includes reduction of trigger pounds of pull and reduction of overtravel & reset.

Specify weight between 3.5 and 5.5 lb.; Dawson adjustable fiber optic sights; extended magazine release;

Springfield Custom™ match barrel; inspect & test fire for function.

The above is an options package on an approved gun (any of the stock XD or XDm models on the list). If the part is available on an approved gun, it's OK. It doesn't have to be standard on the model, just available.

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I'll note that if someone can simply tell me what approved gun this appears on, that would be great. I don't want to create an issue trying to bump people to Open, I just want to be able to justify the extended release.

And while a number of people are saying that it doesn't have to be on an approved gun, I'll wait for Amidon's response before I accept that one. No offense, but I remember clearly that the justification for being able to use the Glock extended mag release on other Glocks came about only after the G34 (with its extended mag release being standard from the factory) was accepted on the approved list.

If that changed, or I'm wrong, I'll definitely post it here. But THAT one, I'm going to want to hear directly from NROI. (Like I said, if I get his permission, I'll post Amidon's direct response.)

(Edited because apparently I typo repeatedly.)

Although I think the official interpretation at NROI's website is pretty clear and answers your question, I certainly won't dog you for wanting to get a clarification. That's what this forum is all about. Sometimes, things don't seem so clear to me either.

Please keep us updated with anything you may learn.

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