C shaped mark on a lead bullet after chambering, HELP!

[TH3180]

I shot a match this evening. I used lead bullets for the first time. At the end of each stage I ejected the cambered round to show clear. Each round had a shallow “c” on the tip of each bullet. The gun ran great with no problems at all. I don’t see any lead build up anywhere on the gun. My thought is the bullet is hitting the bottom of the feed ramp as it’s getting peeled out of the mag. With that I would think there would be some build up there. I will give the rundown of specs and some pictures at the end of this post. This is my first time loading with lead. Before this it has always been FMJ through GLOCKs. What is causing this? How do I fix it? Does this affect anything if I don’t do anything to fix this? Any other tips would be great.

-STI Build 40 S&W with about 1000 FMJ rounds through it and about 50 lead rounds that went across the chrono.

-Brazo’s tuned mags.

-I finished 2 stages with mag #3 and two stages with mag #4.

-180 gr BBI bullet

-1.165” oal

-170PF

[Bob DuBois]

Try loading out longer for STI wide body guns in 40. Mine likes 1.220 shooting 175 cast bullets.

[ltdmstr]

Those things must be pretty darn soft to have that much of an indentation. I would consider a different source for your bullets.

[HI5-O]

Do the marks match up to the bottom of the feed ramp?

I would load it longer (I use 1.180) and see what results you end up with.

A little while back, BE did an experiment on different load lengths and where it hit the feed ramp. I believe it came out to something like 1.175.

[djcantr]

Look in your first pic. The two rounds on the left look significantly shorter than the one on the right:

http://s71.photobucket.com/user/TH3180/media/photo103.jpg.html

Shooting those rounds that hit the feed ramp and then chamber could have significant bullet setback and cause bad things. I would try loading a little longer as suggested. I'd also check to see how easily the bullets setback in the case. Are you resizing them properly so they have enough tension on the bullet? I wouldn't shoot the load you're having problems with.

[ProGunGuy]

i think that the OaL is causing the bullets to tilt in the mag. what you see are the rounds under the top round hitting the lip of the front of the mag.

I don't load for a Brazzos, but my frind has one and he told me he loads hid 180's out to 1.22.

[TH3180]

Look in your first pic. The two rounds on the left look significantly shorter than the one on the right:

http://s71.photobucket.com/user/TH3180/media/photo103.jpg.html

Shooting those rounds that hit the feed ramp and then chamber could have significant bullet setback and cause bad things. I would try loading a little longer as suggested. I'd also check to see how easily the bullets setback in the case. Are you resizing them properly so they have enough tension on the bullet? I wouldn't shoot the load you're having problems with.

I just looked at them and you're correct. There is setback on the rounds that have been chambered but not fired. I ran this load over a chrono last week in my load work up. I got good SD numbers. Heck this load was under 10fps I ran 10-12 rounds of this load over the chrono. Now I'm even more confused. I'll load some longer tonight and see what happens.

i think that the OaL is causing the bullets to tilt in the mag. what you see are the rounds under the top round hitting the lip of the front of the mag.

I don't load for a Brazzos, but my frind has one and he told me he loads hid 180's out to 1.22.

I didn't even think about the rounds hitting the mag and making that mark.

[Bob DuBois]

Most S_I pistols don't run well with stock length ammo. This is also a load that Lee's U die shines.

Seen it fix feeding issues in several 40 S@W STI guns. Put thousands of 175 cast rounds down range with no issues using this length.

U die can be purchased at Midway, EGW or Lee direct.

Might look at extractor tension also. Extractor set right, ammo loaded long, U die gun will run.

[cslafrain]

Those things must be pretty darn soft to have that much of an indentation. I would consider a different source for your bullets.

The bullets are made using a certified 92/6/2 lead alloy and have a BHN of 15 - pretty hard stuff. I load my 40 to 1.200 and have not seen this before. From the looks of the bullet you could put a little more crimp in as well. I assure you this isn't a bullet issue. Give us a call and we will be glad to assist.

[benos]

Do the marks match up to the bottom of the feed ramp?

I would load it longer (I use 1.180) and see what results you end up with.

A little while back, BE did an experiment on different load lengths and where it hit the feed ramp. I believe it came out to something like 1.175.

Yes, for my SVI's the optimum OAL for consistent feeding ran in the 1.175 to 1.800" zone.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure this is how I determined that... Load multiple batches of rounds, to an OAL of 1.175, 1.800, 1.850, 1.900, 1.950, and 1.200.

Load only 10 rounds of batch #1 in a mag... Lock the slide back and with a black Sharpie marker, color the feed ramp black. Then load the mag and shoot all 10 rounds. Then examine the feed ramp - the goal being to have the bullets contact the feed ramp as high as possible.

Then repleat for each batch of the different OALs.

[TH3180]

Do the marks match up to the bottom of the feed ramp?

I would load it longer (I use 1.180) and see what results you end up with.

A little while back, BE did an experiment on different load lengths and where it hit the feed ramp. I believe it came out to something like 1.175.

Yes, for my SVI's the optimum OAL for consistent feeding ran in the 1.175 to 1.800" zone.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure this is how I determined that... Load multiple batches of rounds, to an OAL of 1.175, 1.800, 1.850, 1.900, 1.950, and 1.200.

Load only 10 rounds of batch #1 in a mag... Lock the slide back and with a black Sharpie marker, color the feed ramp black. Then load the mag and shoot all 10 rounds. Then examine the feed ramp - the goal being to have the bullets contact the feed ramp as high as possible.

Then repleat for each batch of the different OALs.

I now have a plan for tomorrow after work. Thank you!

[juan]

are these your ejected rnds ?

trying to eject a long loaded rnd in my pistol leaves these marks.

[TH3180]

are these your ejected rnds ?

trying to eject a long loaded rnd in my pistol leaves these marks.

They are and that was brought up to me. The ejector could be to long and forcing the bullets against the slide on the way out. Here is the kicker. With a crimp at 0.418". I don't think that would cause the round to setback 0.040" but I have no clue. I'm thinking its slamming into the bottom of the feed ramp bu I'm not sure. I'm goin to use Brian's tip tomorrow and that should give me a ton of info. Edited May 29, 2013 by TH3180

[ltdmstr]

Crimp will not prevent set back and is not intended to (it's a taper crimp, not a roll crimp). The case has to be sized down sufficiently to do this. The way to check is to measure the inside diameter of a sized case (use a ball gage and micrometer), then measure the outside diameter of the bullet. The case i.d. has to be at least .002" smaller than the bullet o.d..

[Justsomeguy]

ltdmstr is of course correct. Taper crimp in auto pistol rounds will not prevent setback. It only insures good feeding. The proper case diameter is the key to preventing setback. Some case walls are thinner than others, so it might be wise to take some measurements of some of your various cases by manufacturer just to see. The thinnest ones might require a U die to be useful. If you have only a few of the type that are thin, consider discarding them, otherwise, the sizing die solution may be necessary.

As to the marks on your bullets, they look like feed ramp marks, but you might compare them to the opening in the nose of your magazines as mentioned by one contributor. When chasing a problem, rule nothing out until you have data.

[HI5-O]

Do the marks match up to the bottom of the feed ramp?

I would load it longer (I use 1.180) and see what results you end up with.

A little while back, BE did an experiment on different load lengths and where it hit the feed ramp. I believe it came out to something like 1.175.

Yes, for my SVI's the optimum OAL for consistent feeding ran in the 1.175 to 1.800" zone.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure this is how I determined that... Load multiple batches of rounds, to an OAL of 1.175, 1.800, 1.850, 1.900, 1.950, and 1.200.

Load only 10 rounds of batch #1 in a mag... Lock the slide back and with a black Sharpie marker, color the feed ramp black. Then load the mag and shoot all 10 rounds. Then examine the feed ramp - the goal being to have the bullets contact the feed ramp as high as possible.

Then repleat for each batch of the different OALs.

I now have a plan for tomorrow after work. Thank you!

I think there are typos on the measurements given. Should be: 1.175; 1.180; 1.185; 1.190; 1.195 ?

[TH3180]

I decided to try Brian’s test. I loaded 1.180” thru 1.200” going up by 0.005”. I loaded 11 of each length. When I preformed the test I took a sharpie and colored the feed ramp before shooting each length of rounds. I shot ten and ejected one in the middle of the ten rounds. I wanted to get a look at the bullet when the round was chambered while firing the gun not by hand cycling. I also did this so I could measure for setback. From this test I have decided I am going to 1.195”ish. What do you guys think?

The 1.165” rounds are what brought this all on to start with. I very gingerly loaded the 1^st round and shot it and ejected the next round so I could get a bullet setback on it. I shot 120 of these rounds Tuesday evening at a match. The gun ran just fine not a single problem. Which blows my mind.

Thank you everyone for your help on this.

[Steve RA]

Looks like you have your problem solved !

[TH3180]

Looks like you have your problem solved !

I'm hoping so. I'm going to load a 100 up and do some spot checking while I shoot them.

[HI5-O]

Another thing you may want to look at too is if the spacing of the mag lips are consistent will all of your mags.

[JoshQuerin]

Why wouldn't you go with 1.2? I've always made my rounds as long as possible and still fit in the mag without dragging the front of the mag.

[TH3180]

Why wouldn't you go with 1.2? I've always made my rounds as long as possible and still fit in the mag without dragging the front of the mag.

Using Brian's test. He said go with what round contacts the feed ramp the highest. The 1.195 contacted the feed higher then 1.190 and 1.200.

[JimmyZip]

This was done using the same mag too right? That would eliminate the feed lips being a variable. If dimensions of the feed lips on your mags are not EXACTLY the same front to back and the follower and mag springs are in any way different, then you are adding a list of variables to this test. Needs to be one mag.

[TH3180]

This was done using the same mag too right? That would eliminate the feed lips being a variable. If dimensions of the feed lips on your mags are not EXACTLY the same front to back and the follower and mag springs are in any way different, then you are adding a list of variables to this test. Needs to be one mag.

Yes I used the same mag all the way through. Just for giggles I'm going to load some more 1.190, 1.195 and 1.200 and run them through my other 3 main mags that I'm going to use, to see if the results are the same with those mags.

[JimmyZip]

I would be really interested to hear those results. I just remember working up OAL for feeding on a Limited gun I had in the past. I was told in that case ALL mags would be included as to include ALL variables. Maybe that would be a better course of action in this case now that I think of it.

JZ