EricW Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Can someone please define "50mm" from the torso. Does this mean "no part of the magazine may be more than 50mm from the torso"? Or, does this mean that "some part of the magazine must be at or within 50mm from the torso"? I understand the intent, but this seems to be a poorly-worded rule. Where is the measurement taken? 1) Between the torso and the *nearest* point on the gun/mags 2) Betweent the torso and the *farthest* point on the gun/mags If it's unclear why I think this is a poorly-worded rule, I can supplement with some illustrations. (My apologies if this has been beaten to death previously.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I would like to see this rule worded a little more clearly as well.... 2 inches is alot of room to play with in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hey Eric, I was breezing through the new rulebook yesterday, and I read this rule. Don't quote me, but I believe the measurement is taken at the center of the grip frame to the nearest point on your body. (Like where the Logo is on 1911 grips) At least that is the way that I understood it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Bill, I only found the one reference in the USPSA rules and I have absolutely no clue of how to interpret it. I didn't see anything about measuring to the center of the grip frame. Can you point me to a reference? Paging Dr. Pinto!! Dr. Pinto, please come to the lobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I have vague memories of being told in RO class that my overlays could be used to measure that gap --- since they're allegedly 50 mm wide. IIRC, the test was to insert an overlay into the gap. If it flexes or doesn't fit --- the shooter's good to go. If it's got lots of room it's a problem..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Eric, I'll also refer you to rule 5.2.5 (IPSC Handgun Competition Rules, USPSA Version, January 2004) which says: Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor's handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor's body, a Range Officer may check compliance by measuring the closest distance between the competitor's torso and the center of the longest dimension of the handgun grip and/or any reloading devices. 5.2.5.1 adds: These measurements will be done while the competitor is standing naturally upright. 5.2.5.2 adds: Any competitor who fails the foregoing test will be required to immediately adjust his holster or equipment to comply with the requirements of the relevant Division. The Range Master may make allowances for variations in these requirements due to anatomical considerations. Some competitors may not be able to fully comply. When in doubt, boys and girls, RTFM! Well, those of you that have received them, anyway...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 Nik, Whoda thunk it would be under Chapter 5: Competitor Equipment? I am so ashamed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Eric- I am at work now, but I will check tommorow. It could have also come from the New Rules Synopsis in Front Sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 I sure wish 5.2.5 was referenced in the Appendix. It would seem like an appropriate thing to do. Also, am I the only person whose new rulebook pages go: 87, 88, 105!, 106, 89..... It makes using the index and appendices very awkward. USPSA needs to get a partial refund on whoever printed this silly book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Also, am I the only person whose new rulebook pages go: 87, 88, 105!, 106, 89..... It makes using the index and appendices very awkward. USPSA needs to get a partial refund on whoever printed this silly book. My rulebook pages appear to go in the correct order ---- probably why I was able to be efficient in looking up rule 5.2.5 My earlier comment to RTFM was meant to encourage everyone to read their new rulebooks --- and in some cases to insert notations as to where the next page might in reality be found..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 I sure wish 5.2.5 was referenced in the Appendix. It would seem like an appropriate thing to do. Eric, No real problem here --- just grab that gold plated Cross pen and make a notation in the Appendix. Find this and all other problem areas --- and you could have another improved product for the store: EricW's new and improved version of the USPSA rulebook, already footnoted and highlighted, and reprinted on stiffer stock..... Zuzu will soon be able to feast on Angus beef.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Yep, 5.2.5, Nik beat me to the trigger..... and my rulebook is in proper order.... Eric, I think it must just be you.......bad karma dude Rear sights, (probably many more parts), and now rule books.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Yep, 5.2.5, Nik beat me to the trigger.....and my rulebook is in proper order.... Eric, I think it must just be you.......bad karma dude Rear sights, (probably many more parts), and now rule books.... Nope --- wrong Eric! EricW --- improver of fine quality merchandise and mojo tinkerer. Erik Warren --- destroyer of rear sights (he actually got Singlestack's rear to break at the NATS just by shaking hands) and believer that Remington makes furniture..... Both EricW and Erik Warren --- great ranters when the mood strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Also, am I the only person whose new rulebook pages go: 87, 88, 105!, 106, 89..... Must be the Canadian version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Paging Dr. Pinto!! Dr. Pinto, please come to the lobby! Eric, sorry for the slow response, but I've been in Macau gorging myself on Caldo Verde, Chourizo sausages, Bacalhau and Mexilhões (and 117 glasses of White Port). Anyway, Nik has correctly quoted Rule 5.2.5, so my work here is done ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cz75ipsc Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 measuring the closest distance between the competitor's torso and the center of the longest dimension of the handgun grip English isn't my mother tongue, so I have problems understanding this. What is the longest dimension of the handgun grip, and where is the center of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 So the way I understand this rule is it's purely the RO's discretion as to whether or not you pass the 50mm So the rig I wear may fail for me since I weigh 130lbs, but the same rig on a 250lb man with a fat roll hanging over his belt is fine???....doesn't seem fair to me. No Offense meant to the big guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I predict the next big thing in competitive gear will be a Big Mac! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 measuring the closest distance between the competitor's torso and the center of the longest dimension of the handgun grip English isn't my mother tongue, so I have problems understanding this. What is the longest dimension of the handgun grip, and where is the center of it? The whole length of the grip that you wrap your hand on. Which, by the way, is measured how? From the top slide rails or the bottom of the trigger guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I predict the next big thing in competitive gear will be a Big Mac! LOL you want fries with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Vince, can you post that nice pic from the IPSC rule book - that guy wearing leather - and indicate the dim on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaRacer Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Yea, if you're going to enforce the rule lets see drawing/pic/sketch of what we have to deal with. In Production I'm not so concerned about the gun, but mag position, as I do use an offset/stagger mag pouch. If not, six mags, starting behind the hip, goes a loooong way around the back. I think when USPSA adopted the IPSC 50mm rule somebody forgot to tell them we can only use 10 rnd mags and need to carry a bunch of 'em, unlike IPSC who use 16-18 rnd mags and carry less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I think when USPSA adopted the IPSC 50mm rule somebody forgot to tell them we can only use 10 rnd mags and need to carry a bunch of 'em, unlike IPSC who use 16-18 rnd mags and carry less. That is a good point. Quite likely something that wasn't considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Back in the old days (well, not so old), when I started shooting IPSC, I shot a SS .45" in Standard Division (nope, no Lim-10 in Italy) competing agains wide bodies. I was shooting long courses up to 32 rounds with 5 mags (8-rounders, a 10-rounder would have bumped me in Open) on the belt (a row that started on my hip and ended in the middle of the back) + 1 in pants pocket for topping off. Never complained about that, equipment and Division was a choice of mines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaRacer Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Ahhh, but Lim 10 here allows mags in front, lot more real estate to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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