"Shadow Line"

[TerryT]

Anyone actually shot and handled one of the new Shadow Line models? Pros and con against the standard CZ75 Shadow or SP01 Shadow for USPSA and IDPA? Main differences? Thanks.

[eerw]

Main difference..its available.

slide profile is different. more traditional 75 style slide.

thin checkered grips

slim D style safeties

magwell is beveled

short metal guide rod.

new style shadow hammer.

17rnd nickel plated mags.

because of slide profile gun is lighter than other 75Shadow

gun is just under 38 ounces

feels like shooting a CZ 75.

[blueorb]

And, on top of what Stuart said, it has the 85 style trigger.

This doesn't help you much at the moment but I have one on the way and should be here Friday. I will post some pics and try to post a detailed review (including the short reset trigger).

[TerryT]

Main difference..its available.

That's exactly why I was asking! Looks like the 75 Shadow I ordered is a LOOONG way off.

This doesn't help you much at the moment but I have one on the way and should be here Friday. I will post some pics and try to post a detailed review (including the short reset trigger).

I would appreciate it.

[eerw]

PM me on your order? let me check

[cpa5oh]

Is this Shadow Line Production Legal?

And as far as adding the SRT - does that require the CZ action job, or just the SRT job? (On the SRT info page, it is mentioned that a CZ Custom trigger job is required for the SRT...so if I sent my SP01 Shadow in, I'd have to get the CZ trigger job and the SRT...wondering if you need to pay for both to get a Line with the SRT?)

[blueorb]

My Shadow Line arrived today. The trigger, and specifically the SRT, is amazing... I will post a detailed video review after I shoot my USPSA match tomorrow. I did shoot 100 rounds through it at the indoor range. From 5, 7, 10 and 15 yards I had great groups. One big ragged hole that was just slightly left of center. My group at 25 yrds wasn't that great. The 10 rounds were probably all within a 8 in. circle but they were even more left. I think I may need to drift the rear sight just a tad. It didn't help that the lighting was really bad. I had zero front sight to go by, the FO didn't show up at all in the poor lighting. But, I still think I need to drift the rear sight a little.

Edited May 11, 2013 by blueorb

[kneelingatlas]

That's very cool, I just picked up my SP01 Shadow with SRT yesterday. I can't wait to shoot it.

[allthumbs]

Blueorb, how did you get it so fast with the custom work? Did it get bumped to the front of the line because its new and they wanted to verify their stuff went together well in it? Or do they not have anything else to build right now I wonder? I noticed you went with the CZC hammer instead of the new ShadowLine hammer. Was this by CZC's suggestion? Was it required for the SRT install?

[eerw]

No front of the line. Worked over with my parts and I was able to work it into my schedule. Luck and timing were just on his side.

Edited May 11, 2013 by eerw

[ftjandra]

No front of the line. Worked over with my parts and I was able to work it into my schedule. Luck and timing were just on his side.

I see the hammer is the standard CZ UB competition hammer. Does that mean the Shadow Line hammer is not as good in terms of trigger pull?

[eerw]

The Shadow Line hammer looks like a good hammer..but on someone elses gun is not the place to experiment

CZ comp hammer is still the premium hammer to use and you go with what you know.

[ftjandra]

The Shadow Line hammer looks like a good hammer..but on someone elses gun is not the place to experiment

CZ comp hammer is still the premium hammer to use and you go with what you know.

Sounds like you could be a perfect candidate to do a T and E with the Shadow Line.

[tortuga]

My Shadow Line arrived today. The trigger, and specifically the SRT, is amazing... I will post a detailed video review after I shoot my USPSA match tomorrow. I did shoot 100 rounds through it at the indoor range. From 5, 7, 10 and 15 yards I had great groups. One big ragged hole that was just slightly left of center. My group at 25 yrds wasn't that great. The 10 rounds were probably all within a 8 in. circle but they were even more left. I think I may need to drift the rear sight just a tad. It didn't help that the lighting was really bad. I had zero front sight to go by, the FO didn't show up at all in the poor lighting. But, I still think I need to drift the rear sight a little.

What division will that fit in at present? I would think the hammer alone would take it out of production even if it was on the list.

[blueorb]

Good question. I am running it in production until I am told that I can't. If that happens then I will just run it in Limited 10 minor.

So, I ran the gun for the first time in a USPSA match yesterday. To say that I had bad match would be a massive understatement. First the positives:

- Gun ran flawlessly. Not a single problem.

- I had no problem with my MG 147gr FMJ loads at a OAL of 1.15. I had already loaded 400 of those rounds so I ran them. Glad I did. I read where some people had issues at that length so that was my biggest concern

The negatives (really just one big negative):

- I couldn't hit the side of a barn. Absolutely horrid. An example of that is the stage where we had some paper targets and two plate racks. On the two plate racks I went through 2 magazines (21 rounds) and, of 12 plates, I left 8 plates standing. I could have kept shooting but I decided not to waste more ammo.

Some background; I am not a noob shooter. I am an A class shooter (82%), and a 3 gun IDPA master. So, I understand the basics of trigger control, grip, etc.

Every thing I shot was either 2C's, a C/D or one in the A zone and one way left either a barely made C or a D. I never had issues with the double action pull shot. It was normally a good hit. But, something is happening when I am shooting at speed or under stress (something that certainly didn't happen with my Glock). I am sure going from a Glock to the CZ takes some getting used to. I am not not sure if my grip is not right, if my trigger pull is not right (too much trigger finger or too little) or a little of both.

All I know is I need to figure it out and fast. I will try and drift my sights a tad to the right but I tend to think it is a shooter (me) flaw more than the sights/gun.

Anyone else go from a glock to a CZ and experience this?

Edited May 12, 2013 by blueorb

[eerw]

Maybe grips too thin, too much finger on the trigger. Short reset makes the trigger position further back and with thin grips possibly milking the trigger.

[TallGuy]

Good question. I am running it in production until I am told that I can't. If that happens then I will just run it in Limited 10 minor.

So, I ran the gun for the first time in a USPSA match yesterday. To say that I had bad match would be a massive understatement. First the positives:

- Gun ran flawlessly. Not a single problem.

- I had no problem with my MG 147gr FMJ loads at a OAL of 1.15. I had already loaded 400 of those rounds so I ran them. Glad I did. I read where some people had issues at that length so that was my biggest concern

The negatives (really just one big negative):

- I couldn't hit the side of a barn. Absolutely horrid. An example of that is the stage where we had some paper targets and two plate racks. On the two plate racks I went through 2 magazines (21 rounds) and, of 12 plates, I left 8 plates standing. I could have kept shooting but I decided not to waste more ammo.

Some background; I am not a noob shooter. I am an A class shooter (82%), and a 3 gun IDPA master. So, I understand the basics of trigger control, grip, etc.

Every thing I shot was either 2C's, a C/D or one in the A zone and one way left either a barely made C or a D. I never had issues with the double action pull shot. It was normally a good hit. But, something is happening when I am shooting at speed or under stress (something that certainly didn't happen with my Glock). I am sure going from a Glock to the CZ takes some getting used to. I am not not sure if my grip is not right, if my trigger pull is not right (too much trigger finger or too little) or a little of both.

All I know is I need to figure it out and fast. I will try and drift my sights a tad to the right but I tend to think it is a shooter (me) flaw more than the sights/gun.

Anyone else go from a glock to a CZ and experience this?

Yes, I’ve had the same experience. Once I get dialed into my G35, I need to think a lot harder about what I am doing when I pick up my TS. The slight pictures are basically the same but the triggers are worlds apart. Just prepping the trigger on my Glock is way (way, way) more pressure than it takes to break the shot on my TS. Prepping the trigger feels completely different and takes it me 2-3 matches (shooting under pressure) to get the muscle memory back. I’d not mess with the sights just yet. Maybe do some bench work first?

[ftjandra]

My bro says on his Accu-shadow that he has to use more finger on the trigger. He has long fingers and decently sized palms. Can palm a basketball fairly consistently in fact. He puts his finger past the first knuckle, basically getting as much finger on the trigger as possible, and for the reason that Stuart mentioned above. The short reset trigger moves the trigger very far back. It's not comfortable to shoot with the pad on the trigger for him. It also makes it such that he has to be more conscious about keeping the sights from shifting during a trigger press. It feels more natural to use more finger on the trigger for him. On the double action first shot, it's even more apparent for him. Using just the pad makes the site shift all over the place.

I guess it makes sense for him from a biomechanical stand point (his field).

[kneelingatlas]

Hmm, I have yet to shoot my new Shadow, but I'm concerned about the same thing. I have pretty big hands and I use Hogue grips on my TS, the Shadow feels tiny! I'm thinking of swapping in a 97B trigger, or even the stock trigger from my Witness Hunter.

[blueorb]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The more I think about this, and after spending about 1 hr and 15 minutes tonight dry firing, I definitely think my problems are a combination of my grip and trigger squeeze. Tonight I was very conscious/methodical with my grip and trigger squeeze. If I don't make a perfect grip on the draw, and try dry firing at speed, I definitely see a lot of movement in my sights while pressing the trigger. It seems that a bad draw with my CZ is penalized a lot more than it was with my Glock (not sure why that could be).

Assuming I make a good draw it seems that I have the best trigger squeeze, with almost no sight movement, with just the center of my trigger finger pad being used. I definitely can't go as far as the first joint. That reeks havoc on my squeeze.

Now, I say this even though I said the same thing after dry firing Friday night before my match on Saturday. But, I think being so focused on the grip/trigger tonight makes a big difference. I did a lot of slow, methodical drawing and firing tonight. In a way, it's almost like starting over again.

I have a big IDPA match in Spartanburg, SC next weekend so, on top of dry firing every night, I will be going to an outdoor range on Wed and Thurs this week to see if I see any improvement.

I will give an update if anyone is interested.

[blueorb]

Just wanted to give a quick update. I took the Shadow Line to an outdoor range yesterday for some live fire practice. First live fire practice where I could actually see the front FO sight (not counting the USPSA match last weekend which was a disaster). Indoor shooting just sucks.

Shot strictly plate racks from 10, 15 and 25 yards. Plates were 8'. Very first mag was at 10 yards. Missed every plate. I'm thinking what in the world is going on here. Friend I was shooting with was standing behind me and noticed that every shot was high. Dead center of plate but high. Interesting. Remember I am coming from a Glock and have always held my sights at dead center bullseye. So, I change my POA to 6 o'clock. Bingo. Dead center hit. Do a couple more draws (from concealment since I am practicing for an IDPA match this weekend) with dead center hits..holding at 6 o'clock.

Like a a light bulb going off. I have no clue why I ddin't realize this at the indoor range. Maybe due to not being able to see the front sight or just me assuming it was me with a new gun, etc.

I still have a tendency, if I am rushing and do not make sure of my grip, to use too much trigger finger which is throwing some shots left. I am also, when shooting at competition speed, reverting back to bullseye POA which I will just have to get accustomed to. But, I actually have some confidence now. It will take some time to get my full speed up to where I am used to but at least I can hit my tagets now. I even had a couple of strings from the 25 yrd line where I hit all 6 plates with 6 shots.

I have some video that I will post tonight showing some practice results. I am also still working on the full review. But, to say the least I am estatic about my new found confindence with my CZ. The accuracy that CZ's are known for is finally showing up. I just have to do my part.

For anyone else interested in the Shadow Line. This gun does not have an extended slide stop. With my Glock I was great at doing a slide lock reload and being able to release the slide with one hand (my grip hand thumb), just as the mag is seated, all in one smooth motion. I cannot do that with the Shadow Line. The slide stop sits too far forward and I have to either adjust my grip, A LOT, or I have to do it with my weak had after seating the mag (which really slows me down). So, I ordered an SP-01 extended slide stop from Stuart which should be here soon. Just fyi.

Now, questions for you folks.

- Should I stick with the sights and just get accustomed to shooting with a 6 o'clock hold? Or, should I see about getting a lower front sight to raise the POA/POI (if one even exists)?

I am not sure what I should do. I know that at speed I am reverting to my old POA. I know training will correct that but I'm torn on whether or not to correct the issue by changing sights.

- The factory accuracy test paperwork shows that the test was done with NATO 124gr bullets. I am not hip on 9mm trajectories except for what I shoot which is MG 147gr. Would the POA/POI vary so greatly just from going from a NATO 124gr to my 147gr ammo? I don't recall the paperwork saying what the POA was. Maybe I missed it? Is there a standard for that when testing at the factory?

Edited May 16, 2013 by blueorb

[TerryT]

I spent my entire shooting career holding dead-on and not at 6:00. I wouldn't want to try changing now. Before I changed out the front sight, I would try a couple of different loads in the gun. I know that 147g Alanta Arms & Ammo shoots dead on at 25 yards with my Glock. American Eagle 147g shoot about 5" high and 2" to the right.

Appreciate the info on the extended slide stop.

[kneelingatlas]

I agree, don't change the way you shoot, change the sights. If you post a picture of your gun with some measurements of the sights, I might be able to help; I have some spare sights.

[Croomrider]

Definitely change the sight. You will need a taller front sight, which you can get from CZC or Dawson. It is not uncommon for pistols to shoot higher with heavier bullets. They are a little slower and the muzzle can be a little higher when the bullet exits the barrel.

Mike

[MarkMcArthur]

Don't worry Terry we will get you fixed up. Shouldn't be 2 much longer if Stu would send me Short Resets!! Lol!!