Draft rule book is posted

[bikerburgess]

I looked at it without being logged in. Looks like SP01 shadows, stainless frame SIGs and XDs are now SSP legal, with the bumped weight limits and the changed striker fired language. Steel guide rods are now legal in SSP. A few tweaks to classifier times. Some clarification on what cover means.

Do they make 2,000+ SP01 Shadows or X5s a Year? the production requirements are pretty high for specilized guns like that

Mike

[jlamphere]

The subject of section R9 is leaving a position of cover. Sub-sections R9.x still are talking about leaving cover. The language could be clarified, but it does not make any sense not to be able to move behind cover.

[Strick]

I looked at it without being logged in. Looks like SP01 shadows, stainless frame SIGs and XDs are now SSP legal, with the bumped weight limits and the changed striker fired language. Steel guide rods are now legal in SSP. A few tweaks to classifier times. Some clarification on what cover means.

Do they make 2,000+ SP01 Shadows or X5s a Year? the production requirements are pretty high for specilized guns like that

Mike

They must....a Shadow is USPSA production legal.

[DWFAN]

I think the R9 section is talking about moving from cover at P1, across the open, to P2. That makes the R9.1 and 9.2 make sense. You cannot leave a "position of cover" with an empty gun. If you are moving behind a wall from P1 to P2, that is still a "position of cover".

That is not what it says.

R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move

toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.

R9.2. When performing a Loaded Cylinder/Loaded Chamber reload, the shooter may not advance in the

stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.

Nothing there at all about cover or leaving cover, just moving to next position.

Just reading these two, looks like a rwr/tac load would be legal though?

[motosapiens]

I looked at it without being logged in. Looks like SP01 shadows, stainless frame SIGs and XDs are now SSP legal, with the bumped weight limits and the changed striker fired language. Steel guide rods are now legal in SSP. A few tweaks to classifier times. Some clarification on what cover means.

Do they make 2,000+ SP01 Shadows or X5s a Year? the production requirements are pretty high for specilized guns like that

Mike

Wait, what?.... per year?

[blind bat]

From my quick reading of the rules:

- SSP now includes "striker fired" guns.  Meaning XD's are now in SSP- SSP classification times are now a lot closer to ESP classificationtimes.  SSP Expert is now 110 (ESP Ex = 109).  I think this is the biggestchange I've seen.- The range commands are now much closer to USPSA.  Are you ready?  Iffinished... Range is clear.- All shoot throughs count.- No CoFs with texas stars, plate racks or funky targets.- Standard flashlight starting position is in strong hand.  No mandated onbody flashlight start.  Rings or lanyards that retain the flashlightaround a body part (my reading is the the Surefire ring is still ok).

[Craig N]

.

I also saw NO mention of round dumping. That rule needed to be done away with.

Yeah......now you just have to reload before moving. Not sure if that trade off is a "win"

How is that rule different than before? What did I miss? I understood you were never allowed to move from cover with an unloaded gun.

The only reload change I saw was now it's legal to initiate a slide-lock reload in the open if that's where you run dry.

Read R9.1 and R9.2 You can't move from position to another while reloading. Imagine a 8' wall where P1 is at one end and P2 is at the other. Even though you are behind cover the whole time you can't reload moving to P2.

The long dreaded flat footed reload rule.

[Craig N]

There's still too much "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" in it, but a lot of the "protect Glock at any cost" is gone. It's a step in the right direction.

Yeah cuz the XD is such a strong gun in Production............

[dcloudy777]

There's still too much "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" in it, but a lot of the "protect Glock at any cost" is gone. It's a step in the right direction.

Yeah cuz the XD is such a strong gun in Production............

I was actually referring more to the raising of the weight limits than the inclusion of the XD, but you have to admit there for a few years it was pretty obvious that anything that competed with Glock was quickly moved to ESP or banned altogether... even though, like you said, it really didn't need to be... Glock certainly needs no protection.

[Racinready300ex]

I'm not happy that houge big butts are now illegal. Mainly because I just dropped $80 on a set and haven't even got to use them yet.

[dcloudy777]

I'm not happy that houge big butts are now illegal. Mainly because I just dropped $80 on a set and haven't even got to use them yet.

I feel your pain... I bought a 610 literally weeks before the big SSR/ESR split... got to shoot unopposed at Southeast Regional that year . That rule book debacle is what led me to USPSA, and this web forum, actually.

[eliminator]

I'm not happy that houge big butts are now illegal. Mainly because I just dropped $80 on a set and haven't even got to use them yet.

There's a younger shooter near me who recently put a set on his gun. I know he doesn't have an unlimited budget. Obsoleting equipment is not good.

[Akacala]

With the logic they used for evening out the weight for ssp and ESP, why not up ssr to esr weights?

[motosapiens]

There's still too much "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" in it, but a lot of the "protect Glock at any cost" is gone. It's a step in the right direction.

Yeah cuz the XD is such a strong gun in Production............

stronger than glock, if you look at the top 10 or so from nationals.

[bikerburgess]

I looked at it without being logged in. Looks like SP01 shadows, stainless frame SIGs and XDs are now SSP legal, with the bumped weight limits and the changed striker fired language. Steel guide rods are now legal in SSP. A few tweaks to classifier times. Some clarification on what cover means.

Do they make 2,000+ SP01 Shadows or X5s a Year? the production requirements are pretty high for specilized guns like that

Mike

They must....a Shadow is USPSA production legal.

USPSA production only requires 2000 ever as certified by the manufacturer

IDPA requires 2,000 per year or 20,000 total for out of production guns.

my concern is how do the SO's know

Mike

[GmanCdp]

never mind.. this was about a SSP question and found the answer on the side bar..

Edited May 7, 2013 by GmanCdp

[Strick]

Comment [TT79]: 5” STI Limited type guns

with full length steel dust covers (and similar

firearms from other manufacturers) are viewed

as competition only firearms.

This replaces the full length dust cover (FLDC)

rule. Government model 1911 dust covers

measure 2.75”. This allows another half inch.

Springfield 1911 light rails measure basically

2.75”, Taurus 1911 light rails are 3.25” as near

as can be scaled from catalog pictures.

Note that firearms that are SSP legal and have steel

dust covers over 3.25” may still compete in ESP or

CDP depending on caliber.

Just so I am reading this correct..The CZ SP01 would now be ok to use in SSP since they raised the weight limit..

Seems that way.....because a FLDC is only competition only if it is on a 1911/2011. If it is on a SSP gun, that can then be shot in ESP it isn't..........perfect sense.

[GmanCdp]

Thanks Strick..I read it that way,but you know me living in Ms now...LOL..

[dcloudy777]

It's also... interesting... how they have addressed the issue of matches wanting to use more steel.

Apparently you can still only have 10% of the match targets steel, but you can have as many steel targets as you want, provided that they are hidden behind scored cardboard targets?

[NicVerAZ]

It's also... interesting... how they have addressed the issue of matches wanting to use more steel.

Apparently you can still only have 10% of the match targets steel, but you can have as many steel targets as you want, provided that they are hidden behind scored cardboard targets?

Only 4 types of steel targets can be used but you cannot use the 6" circle target any longer. 8" minimum.

Edited May 7, 2013 by NicVerAZ

[NicVerAZ]

I looked at it without being logged in. Looks like SP01 shadows, stainless frame SIGs and XDs are now SSP legal, with the bumped weight limits and the changed striker fired language. Steel guide rods are now legal in SSP. A few tweaks to classifier times. Some clarification on what cover means.

Do they make 2,000+ SP01 Shadows or X5s a Year? the production requirements are pretty high for specilized guns like that

Mike

They must....a Shadow is USPSA production legal.

USPSA production only requires 2000 ever as certified by the manufacturer

IDPA requires 2,000 per year or 20,000 total for out of production guns.

my concern is how do the SO's know

Mike

Exactly, unless they maintain a production list as USPSA does.

IDPA did not care about production numbers. What does this have to do with anything?

What if I elect to shoot a rare animal, and I mean rarer than a GP in these parts?

This leaves interpretation to the SO, who can say "Grand Power? Never heard of them... Sorry, dude."

[GmanCdp]

SC17.4. Stationary steel reactive vertical plates representing target legs that present a target at least three (3)inches wide and at least fifteen (15) inches tall are allowed. These targets are scored as down zero (-0) if they fall. If the target is left standing it is scored as down five (-5) plus FTN if applicable. The calibration zone for this target is the upper ½ of the target leg.

SC17.6. Other targets allowed if and only if they represent something pertinent and appropriate to the stage

scenario.

• Stationary or moving Official IDPA cardboard targets with the down three area cut away, with a nonscoring

3/8” perimeter remaining.

• Official IDPA cardboard targets may have their scoring area reduced by painting the non-scoring area

with a high contrast color that is not black or white.

• Stationary 8” diameter round reactive steel plates.

• Stationary 6” x 6” square reactive steel plates.

• Stationary 8” diameter round penetrable reactive targets.

• Stationary 6” x 6” square penetrable reactive targets.

• Other stationary steel reactive plates with sixty square inches or more surface area where the smallest

dimension presented to the shooter must equal or exceed three inches. The MD will define the

calibration zone for these targets.

• Stationary Clay pigeon targets.

I still think IDPA should put a yardage limit on engagement of steel and clay pigeons.. not for me LOL,but it's pretty demanding for some to hit a 3in wide steel leg plate at 15 yards or pigeons at 20 yards..

[GmanCdp]

SC17.6 Official IDPA cardboard targets may have their scoring area reduced by painting the non-scoring area with a high contrast color that is not black or white.

This takes the place of BLACK hard cover on targets now??

[RickB]

From what I read about the ESP class:

• Selective DA/SA firearms will start cocked and locked or decocked.
• Double action, double action only, or striker-fired firearms may have a manual safety engaged at the shooter’s discretion
• All firearms legal in SSP are legal for use in ESP.

Yeehah! I am now shooting my GP in the ESP class, cocked and locked, safety off. I advise CZ, Sig and B92 guys to do the same.

No changes in those rules. If the safety is off, it's not "locked". If the hammer is down, you have the option of engaging the safety or not, but if the hammer is cocked, you must have the ability to "lock" it with the safety, and you must do so. Same as before.

[RammerJammer]

At least there is new stuff to be confused about and argue over. Hurray!

Edited May 7, 2013 by RammerJammer