Spectator stopping a shooter

[PkSpawn]

Can someone that is a spectator on a stage, and the shooter not only does something that was declared a forbidden action prior to match start, but was just generally unsafe, Can they (spectator) stop the shooter?

10.2.11 says if they do the forbidden action they would be stopped and then given a Zero for the stage.

Issue here is the RO on the stage did not stop the shooter. I saw the forbidden action and yelled stop..

[jlamphere]

I would think if unsafe actions are witnessed, it is everyone's responsability to stop the shooter. The stage can be re-set and re-shot, but unsafe actions have to be stopped instantly by anyone on the stage, not just the RO.

Edited May 6, 2013 by jlamphere

[Flexmoney]

Can they (spectator) stop the shooter?

....

I saw the forbidden action and yelled stop..

It sounds like you did so.

[PkSpawn]

Can they (spectator) stop the shooter?

....

I saw the forbidden action and yelled stop..

It sounds like you did so.

LoL. Well yeah, but got some flack about it from the squad and just the general rabble, rabble.. Was more wondering if there was a specific rule that would support it. I don't regret what I did. They were given a reshoot vs zero on the stage or DQ.

Rather someone pissed for my mistake vs an accident.

Thank you.

[38SuperDub]

8.6.1

No assistance of any kind can be given to a competitor during a course

of fire, except that any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue

safety warnings to a competitor at any time. Such warnings will not be

grounds for the competitor to be awarded a reshoot.

8.6.2

Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural

penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6.

[dzhitshard]

What kind of match was this & How many RO's were on the line and what is the unsafe action you saw but they didn't?

[MarkCO]

If you see an unsafe action at a match I am runnning, please do what you did again.

Superior to any ruleset is safety. Sure, some people may chastize you, as some have already done, but safe is better than silent. After that, let the rulebook and RM sort it out appropriately.

[Shadowrider]

At a match this weekend we had the RO and the whole freaking squad yelling STOP! The squad was yelling it while running I might add.

[lugnut]

What was the shooter doing? Was is 100% clear?

[PkSpawn]

What kind of match was this & How many RO's were on the line and what is the unsafe action you saw but they didn't?

Local Match.. Not dedicated stage RO, they roamed with the squad..

Here is a picture of the stage stolen from WaltinPA's photos.. This awesome shooter had no problem going prone.. Others sat indian style.

The platform was the shooting box. So going prone like that you risk your feet touching the ground, outside of the shooting area.. The forbidden action was shooting while laying on your back, and shooting between your legs.

[GrumpyOne]

If it wasn't a safety infraction, then you did wrong (IMO) .

[lcs]

What's the purpose of that platform anyway? Toes touching ground---seriously ? You are going to decry "foot fault"

A litte off subject--but no platform--no forbidden action!!!

Stuff like that platform creates more problems than it's worth.

[kellymc]

I would think having your knees in front of the muzzle would be a sure safety issue.

[partyboy424]

Sounds like you saw the guy sit down like this, except his feet were toward those targets instead of off to the side like in this photo and he was basically taking the chance of blowing his toes off? Yeah, I think everyone at my club would've yelled stop. Especially if it was made clear it was forbidden before hand.

[lcs]

Sounds like you saw the guy sit down like this, except his feet were toward those targets instead of off to the side like in this photo and he was basically taking the chance of blowing his toes off? Yeah, I think everyone at my club would've yelled stop. Especially if it was made clear it was forbidden before hand.

Was the gun in a box simulating a nightstand---if so, the picture does not look like any safety rules violated. Probably not the best stage set up. A lot of possibilities of 180 violations, and we just should not be designing stages that "push" the envelop.

[PkSpawn]

Sounds like you saw the guy sit down like this, except his feet were toward those targets instead of off to the side like in this photo and he was basically taking the chance of blowing his toes off? Yeah, I think everyone at my club would've yelled stop. Especially if it was made clear it was forbidden before hand.

Correct.. And seeing your picture. I understand now why some asked for the platform to be turned, LoL

[Steve RA]

Appears a number of you never were in/saw any IHMSA matches.

[Ming the Merciless]

Appears a number of you never were in/saw any IHMSA matches.

IHMSA rules do not apply to USPSA, at the speed we move and shoot IHMSA legal shooting positions are unsafe for USPSA.

[sperman]

Why didn't the shooter or RO know that was a FA?

Was there a written stage briefing? Did the WSB include the FA? Was the WSB read to the squad? I'm guessing the answer to at least one of those questions is "No."

[waktasz]

What kind of match was this & How many RO's were on the line and what is the unsafe action you saw but they didn't?

Local Match.. Not dedicated stage RO, they roamed with the squad..

Here is a picture of the stage stolen from WaltinPA's photos.. This awesome shooter had no problem going prone.. Others sat indian style.

The platform was the shooting box. So going prone like that you risk your feet touching the ground, outside of the shooting area.. The forbidden action was shooting while laying on your back, and shooting between your legs.

Why you gotta post pictures of my rear end on the internet bro?

[waktasz]

What's the purpose of that platform anyway? Toes touching ground---seriously ? You are going to decry "foot fault"

A litte off subject--but no platform--no forbidden action!!!

Stuff like that platform creates more problems than it's worth.

There was a stage similar to this at a major match that one of our stage designers attended. He decided to give us all a preview of what we might see at a larger match so this stage was born.

Sperman, the FA was announced at the walk through by the match director/Range Master, although it was not written on the WSB that I know of.

[Graham Smith]

Just to repeat it for clarity. There is a difference between yelling stop for something that is unsafe (and could result in a DQ) and for doing something that's illegal (which could result in a stage zero).

There may be some debate as to whether the action violated 10.5.5 (sweeping). But the fact that it was declared a FA at the walkthrough indicates that the match director believed that it was dangerous enough to warrant the prohibition.

So, while the OP may (or may not) have erred in yelling stop, it seems to me that the RO definately erred in not stopping the shooter for violating the FA.

[sroe3]

In the crowd I shoot with I wouldn't be surprised if the whole squad yelled stop if someone was about to shoot between his knees or feet. Safety above all else. Since he was committing the FA, zero for the stage.

[Skizeks]

.

I would think having your knees in front of the muzzle would be a sure safety issue.

Sounds ;like real poor stage design to begin with..

If they had enough time before the match to include in the WSB the FA, they had enough time to correct the problem

[Cy Soto]

This appears to be more a "gotcha" issue than a safety violation.

Yelling "stop" was not the correct call in this situation for two reasons: 1) shooting while laying on your back is not prohibited in USPSA and 2) the shooter was not yet committing a Forbidden Action since according to Rule 2.3.1.1 Section "d" Forbidden Actions must be specified in the WSB (which, in this case, it was not).