Oddball Rules ? - Moving a VFG

[Langenator]

Pretty much every rule set I've seen prohibits reconfiguring your guns during a match (with the exception of choke tubes.)

My question is, if I have a VFG on a rifle with a quad rail, can I move the VFG around on the rails from stage to stage? Say, have it in the normal postion (6 o'clock) for a run-n-gun stage, but then move it to one side on another stage to brace against a post, or just get it out of the way to use a rest?

Or would this be one of those RO/MD judgement calls?

[Bryan 45]

I'm going to be a smart ass, but here it goes.....

Why are you using a VFG and quad rail for 3 gun anyway?





Unless a specific rule set says otherwise, I would consider this reconfiguring your rifle and against the rules. If there is a barricade that makes the placement of your VFG inconvenient, and you move the VFG to gain an advantage over how your rifle was configured at the start of the match, then it is reconfiguring.

Just my opinion.

[Langenator]

The quad rail...because I built the rifle years ago, when such things were trendy, before I got into 3-gun. It doesn't bug me enough to spend the money to get a new tube (the rails are free floated).

I was just wondering about the VFG since I've got a couple laying around (Army surplus ) and I had one on my M4 in Afghanistan.

[Bryan 45]

I hope you know I was joking about the equipment choice. I'd rather see someone out shooting their Granny's Winchester '94 at a 3 gun match than stroking a new JP in their mom's basement.

This issue would certainly be one to check w/ the MD on before you shoot your first stage.

[Benelli Chick]

Sorry! Somehow it jumped topics on me!

Wrong place!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Benelli Chick

[Kagemusha]

My contribution is that in Open, I can mount and dismount my bipod depending on my need for it. Don't know if the vfg can be treated the same in Tac-Optics or Limited. As previously mentioned, it would depend on the rules of the match.

[Langenator]

I hope you know I was joking about the equipment choice. I'd rather see someone out shooting their Granny's Winchester '94 at a 3 gun match than stroking a new JP in their mom's basement.

This issue would certainly be one to check w/ the MD on before you shoot your first stage.

Well, I've run my M1 Garand, and not just for WWII Division at LaRue.. The feeling of hearing the RO call 'Hit!' on the 500 yard target at the same time you hear the PING!....

[J.Schmitt]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

[ClutchUSMC]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

Really? What about the barricade teeth things noveske sells? I would think as long as it wasn't a bipod, and he left it in the same place for the entire match it wouldn't matter.... Plenty of guys have those things or the magpull even uglier version on their rifle at the matches I go to but I've never seen anyone bumped for it touching something.

[ac4wordplay]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

USPSA? Other match? Where?

Rule citation please.

[gose]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

USPSA? Other match? Where?

Rule citation please.

RM3G is the only match that does that, I think.

[ChuckS]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

USPSA? Other match? Where?

Rule citation please.

RM3G is the only match that does that, I think.

IMA calls it "Supporting devices (bipods, etc.) are prohibited." so your VFG may be a "etc".

USPSA calls it "Use of Bipods and similar" so your VFG may be a "similar".

[J.Schmitt]

I run the IMGA rules for the MN3GunGroup up here in Minnesota. As always, and as we learned in another popular thread, Check individual match rules

No rifle external supporting devices are allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods,

vertical foregrips that are rested on ground or props. There are NO

“beta/C” or drum mags allowed in this class. Only traditional double stack

mags allowed. There are no compensators bigger than 1” in diameter an

I'm headed to Midwest next week like a lot of you, this is off there rules,

6.4.4 Rifle supporting devices (i.e. bipods, etc.) are not allowed in this class

Ozarks and Blue Ridge run similar,

Certain firearm supporting devices may be prohibited by the Match Director.

5.6.1 Supporting devices that risk excess damage to props or pose a risk to shooters are prohibited. (i.e. the Hedgehog and like products are not allowed)

RM3G

No rifle external supporting devices are allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods,

vertical foregrips that are rested on ground or props, cinched mags or

mag pads/additions designed to enlarge the footprint of a single mag that

are rested on the ground or props)

[ClutchUSMC]

Thanks for taking the time to run all that down Jay.

[ac4wordplay]

I run the IMGA rules for the MN3GunGroup up here in Minnesota. As always, and as we learned in another popular thread, Check individual match rules

No rifle external supporting devices are allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods,

vertical foregrips that are rested on ground or props. There are NO

“beta/C” or drum mags allowed in this class. Only traditional double stack

mags allowed. There are no compensators bigger than 1” in diameter an

I'm headed to Midwest next week like a lot of you, this is off there rules,

6.4.4 Rifle supporting devices (i.e. bipods, etc.) are not allowed in this class

Ozarks and Blue Ridge run similar,

Certain firearm supporting devices may be prohibited by the Match Director.

5.6.1 Supporting devices that risk excess damage to props or pose a risk to shooters are prohibited. (i.e. the Hedgehog and like products are not allowed)

RM3G

No rifle external supporting devices are allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods,

vertical foregrips that are rested on ground or props, cinched mags or

mag pads/additions designed to enlarge the footprint of a single mag that

are rested on the ground or props)

Thanks for the clarification - it had previously sounded (at least to me) that you were saying:

in divisions where VFGs are allowed, if the VFG is used to brace against a barricade, then the competitor will be bumped to Open division

which seemed quite odd. Now I understand that you're saying that VFGs are only allowed in Open division at certain matches.

[DaveTimm]

The way I understand it and have seen it handles is if a shooter has a VFG, say in Tac Ops they can use it as a grip when shooing. All good. However if or when he uses it as a support device on a barricade that would then bump him to open since open is the only class where support devices are allowed. We have seen a lot of new shooters with tac type rifles come to 3 gun for the first time. Education is a big part but as the sport grows we will see more of this. They get hooked and realized tactical isn't always the best for 3 gun.

[DaveTimm]

Sorry for the typos on the phone and I can't edit.

[ClutchUSMC]

I tend to let all the shooters with a VFG use them however they want unless bipod feet pop out the bottom. I haven't seen it ever be an advantage for them. If its a "rifle supporting device" what's 2 coupled mags with giant basepads on them?

We allow basepads specifically designed to be "rifle supporting devices" but the 1/4" round piece of plastic that is the wrong height to work most times is a no go?

[J.Schmitt]

We all try to roll with the rules of each match, RM3G won't let your run coupled mags that are not staggered, that is there specific rule. Mags are obviously neccessary to operate the gun and are not add ons. Seems most matches use IMGA rules which would resrict the VFG to not be used as support. I for 1 have seen shooters try and use them as support devices and have a great deal of trouble trying to get stable with them.

Jay

[Alaskapopo]

Using a vfg as a brace against any object will get you bumped to open. Only you hand can touch it. So thaking that chance could be costly.

Jay

USPSA? Other match? Where?

Rule citation please.

RM3G is the only match that does that, I think.

IMA calls it "Supporting devices (bipods, etc.) are prohibited." so your VFG may be a "etc".

USPSA calls it "Use of Bipods and similar" so your VFG may be a "similar".

If K9's are ok for bracing on a barricade then so is a VFG. The moving it to suit the situation however I bet not so ok.

Pat

[MarkCO]

The rules vary, just read them and know them.

One reason I tell people who ask to find a local match, even if it is a drive, to shoot your first 3Gun. Had a guy at the local match on Saturday...Had a VFG on the rifle, as well as lights on the pistol, rifle and shotgun. I asked another shooter on his squad take him aside and explain the rules, which he did. First local match, time to educate on the rule sets, low stress. Major match...the shooters should know the rules.

My opinion may label some of the rules silly and some of the equipment silly, but who cares? Just follow the rules that are written for the division you want to shoot in.

[ChuckS]

If K9's are ok for bracing on a barricade then so is a VFG. The moving it to suit the situation however I bet not so ok.

Pat

You use dogs to brace your rifle??? Poor puppy...

[ClutchUSMC]

I'm with you guys about having to know the rules wherever you go. I am thinking about trying to play a little in HM this year, the rules in HM seem to be different, and some times drastically, from match to match. Some places its irons only, some 1x is ok, some places its 1911s only some places any .45 will do, etc.

I guess my real question is what define's "rifle supporting device" ? I could be a dick and say my hands are a rifle supporting deceive or a sling, or a coupled mag, or the hand guard if you rest it on a something, etc. In my mind I always read "rifle supporting device" as bipod. I have used both my mags and my sling to support my rifle in major matches in the last 12 months and no one looks twice.

[Alaskapopo]

If K9's are ok for bracing on a barricade then so is a VFG. The moving it to suit the situation however I bet not so ok.

Pat

You use dogs to brace your rifle??? Poor puppy...

Lol. That got me laughing. But in reality I stopped using the K9 from Noveske because they were never at the right position for me. If they were out far enough not to interfer with my grip on the rifle they were too far out to get the proper position on most barricades for me. I have started using my hand like 9x23 guy told me to do from the start.

Pat

[Morgan Patrick]

The magpul AFG's and other VFGs r usually less stable for bracing on top of a barricade depending on the barricade and positioning... Moving or removing VFGs would def provide an advantage/more stable position on some stages... Havent seen that happen and most ro's wouldnt be looking for it... Never thought about that bumping u to open in some matches...