Sonora88 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Got my MOA Stoeger in a few days ago..............This Thing is Unbelievable!!! Do your self a favor and order from Tom Hart at MOA Precision ASAP!! I'm so glad I went this route instead of waiting for Stoeger's M3K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Sorry for the stupid question. I was thinking I could have used it to release a round from the tube, the match I went to today had lots of empty chamber closed bolt starts. Not a stupid question. If you have a closed bolt, empty chamber start, trip the small silver serrated button next to the trigger guard to release the first shell onto the carrier. Then at the start signal, just rack the bolt handle and it is ready to fire. The so-called "benelli button" has caused a LOT of shooters new to the Benelli-style operating system some fits at first. Second option (depending on your division and mag capacity restriction) is to leave the magazine full, partially retract the bolt, and drop a shell on the carrier. If you didn't pull the bolt fully rearward far enough to engage the lifter, you can close the bolt over the round on the lifter to increase your capacity on an empty chamber start (ghost load). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I am going to have to try that tonight. Just have to remember the max allowed in gun prior to start rules that may or may not be in effect at the match. Hate to go to open for one extra round! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliney00 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 that's what I was trying to do, but when I hit the silver serrated lever on mine it releases the first shell onto the carrier, followed by 1/4 of the next shell binding me up. so I was starting with 8 in the mag tube and one in my hand and feed the first round by hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Hooked up a good friend of mine that bought a Stoeger M3000, here it is fellas. Edited May 11, 2015 by Oskino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 that's what I was trying to do, but when I hit the silver serrated lever on mine it releases the first shell onto the carrier, followed by 1/4 of the next shell binding me up. so I was starting with 8 in the mag tube and one in my hand and feed the first round by hand That is not a normal malfunction. Have you by chance had the trigger group out of the gun? Also, what brand of ammunition are you using, or does it occur with multiple brands? Has the shell stop lever been out of the gun? Does it happen if you hit the shell release when the magazine has only 2 or 3 shells in it? When firing the gun it cycles normally? It is hard to explain, because dropping the hammer kicks the little silver lever from the inside, just like your finger does from the outside. I am a little at a loss to explain why it double feeds when the lever is tripped by hand, but not when the lever is tripped by the hammer. Can you put dummy rounds in it (or try this at the range)- Magazine full, chamber EMPTY (DOUBLE CHECK), then pull trigger to release shell onto the carrier. You can see the finger lever pop up when the hammer falls, just as if you had pushed it. The first shell in the magazine should come out, but it should rock the shell stop into the path of the next shell as it comes back into the receiver. If it double feeds when the lever is pressed but not when the hammer depresses it, something odd is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliney00 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It was happening with my estate practice rounds #8 1150 fps I belive. As well as my match ammo winchester AA #7 and #8 The trigger group has been out but not apart. And the rest of the shotgun was dismantled when I did the loading port (kind of a conservative cut) I will try to take a video of what's going on tonight.I thought it was strange that it cycles fine when it is being fired but Hangs up on itself when you try to drop a shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did the problem start immediately after the port work, or did it run for a while and then start this problem? Trying to narrow down the list of possible suspects. Also, was the shell release removed before the work was started, or partway through? Is it possible that there is debris inside the release button pivot, or that the little stop pin inside the button spring was lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliney00 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It was removed before hand and the recover was clean when it went back together. This past week was the first time it happened and I've had it for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So, after all the mods, it was working fine for some length of time as I understand you. Had the trigger unit been out immediately before the malf started to occur? It is possible if you don't press the bolt release button in before inserting the trigger group to have the shell release engage the backside of the lever. I have seen them assembled this way once or twice, but have never tested one for function in this condition to see what would happen. Any chance of getting some pics of the trigger group to look for unusual wear or bending of the shell release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I gotta say this.... GUYS you are all getting amazing feedback from the MAN who knows these guns. You are getting it for FREE! So the next time it comes up on where to go for parts or smithing for the M3000 you should be compelled to go to MOA! Tom doesn't help all of us to get anything from us, Tom is just that kind of guy. I ask that you support him as he supports us, even when not a dollar is to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstuart34 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I gotta say this.... GUYS you are all getting amazing feedback from the MAN who knows these guns. You are getting it for FREE! So the next time it comes up on where to go for parts or smithing for the M3000 you should be compelled to go to MOA! Tom doesn't help all of us to get anything from us, Tom is just that kind of guy. I ask that you support him as he supports us, even when not a dollar is to be made. Mr. Kelly the same is to be said you you! None of this would have come on so strongly without out your great artical. People need to support you in your writing, photography, and cheering you on in matches. I have followed you on Facebook and I try and read and like things you post when I catch them. They way you promote shooting sports, action style to clays just shows your love for shooting and how much class you really have. Everyone needs to support you also! Thank you Mr. Kelly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 +1 on this. If it weren't for Pat Kelley's original input about this shotgun, I would not have discovered it when looking for a replacement for my ailing 1100. Thank God for google search and Mr Kelley! I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg on a new Benelli, but didn't trust the Remington any more. The Stoeger was exactly what I was looking for, and obviously what a LOT of us were looking for as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not that familiar with the Stoeger, but I can tell you why it does this when manually cycled and not when it is shot. It is called shell serg. The inertia bolt isn't the only thing wanting to stay in one place while the gun moves back. That big old stack of shell want to stay in one place too. Under recoil the spring pressure pushing back is almost 2/3 less of what it is with no recoil with a FULL tube!!!....why do you think we need so much free spring sticking out of the tube to make them feed that last round or two. Your problem is in your shell cut off lever. Either in the front where it is jointed or in the back, or how the receiver was relieved. To change the timing of the cut off lever you can bend down the tab that is hit by the hammer spring follower, but in this case I really don't think that would help unless yours is bent way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Good call Kurt- That is why I asked in post #2406 if it did the same thing with 2 or 3 shells in it, and asked for a pic of the trigger group to see if the tab was bent. Your explanation of the physics involved was very well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliney00 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I really do appreciate the help, you aren't going to believe this but I cannot reproduce the problem now. I went to the range last night and it did exactly what it should have. I tried with the tube full, half full and almost empty with the same ammo from my match and my practice ammo, and I can't make the gun do it again. it was going it on my last practice on last Thursday night, and I avoided trying to load that way during the match because of it, and now it is functioning exactly how it should. so I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Man, that's worse than fixing electrical problems on cars! Only thing worse than a malfunction is one that comes and goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_M Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This past weekend I had two failures to eject. One with a 1550fps 1oz Xtreme slug and one with a 1300fps 1 1/8oz 3.25 dram STS Nitro. Both times the empty shell was still in line with the bore but with the bolt to the rear and a new shell on the lifter. Reaching in and pulling the empty shell out allowed the bolt to close and chamber the fresh round. What would cause a failure to eject like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This past weekend I had two failures to eject. One with a 1550fps 1oz Xtreme slug and one with a 1300fps 1 1/8oz 3.25 dram STS Nitro. Both times the empty shell was still in line with the bore but with the bolt to the rear and a new shell on the lifter. Reaching in and pulling the empty shell out allowed the bolt to close and chamber the fresh round. What would cause a failure to eject like this? I'd say extractor issue. Replace spring with M2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarakian Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Just wanted to take moment and thank everyone on thread for all the great info, especially Mr. Kelley and Tom from MOA. After reading Mr. Kelley's original article when it came out, I decided to take a closer look at the M3000. Hesitated for a while when the issue with threading for the tube reared up. Then reading through this thread I found that MOA had solved this and other upgrade issues, so a couple of weeks ago I pulled the trigger and bought one along with ordering all the parts from MOA. Finally got a chance to shoot it last night. Took it out for some trap (first time in a couple of years) just to make sure it goes bang when expected before I start changing stuff. Sure as heck, it did. No problems with extraction or feeding on any of the shells I tried (Winchester Super Target, Universal, and some of my AA reloads). Strange thing was, even with needing a few shots to figure the difference in aiming point from my Citori, I actually shot better than normal. So now it's on to the upgrades, then more testing and a match at the end of the month. Should all go as well as expected, it will then get a ride to the west coast for the loving touch of MOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_M Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This past weekend I had two failures to eject. One with a 1550fps 1oz Xtreme slug and one with a 1300fps 1 1/8oz 3.25 dram STS Nitro. Both times the empty shell was still in line with the bore but with the bolt to the rear and a new shell on the lifter. Reaching in and pulling the empty shell out allowed the bolt to close and chamber the fresh round. What would cause a failure to eject like this? I'd say extractor issue. Replace spring with M2. I plan to do this anyway, but the shell extracted fine, just didn't eject. What makes you think it's the extractor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This past weekend I had two failures to eject. One with a 1550fps 1oz Xtreme slug and one with a 1300fps 1 1/8oz 3.25 dram STS Nitro. Both times the empty shell was still in line with the bore but with the bolt to the rear and a new shell on the lifter. Reaching in and pulling the empty shell out allowed the bolt to close and chamber the fresh round. What would cause a failure to eject like this? I'd say extractor issue. Replace spring with M2. I plan to do this anyway, but the shell extracted fine, just didn't eject. What makes you think it's the extractor? Because the extractor released its hold on the shell rim before the rim contacted the ejector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 ^ This. With shotguns, the majority of ejection problems are either extraction problems or short-strokes. Since your lifter was engaged, it wasn't a short stroke. If it was purely an ejector problem the should would have likely been hanging out the ejection port at an angle, rather than in-line with the bolt stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclic Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Well, got my Stoeger built today. I went with the 24" model, TTI lifter, Carbon Arms M3K tube, and did the load port job myself. I also cut a round channel into the trigger guard to funnel the loads better. I decided to skip the bolt release as I'm a lefty. Figured I'd post a pic of the milling with a little engraving for spice. I'm seriously thinking of dumping the stock spacers and simply using two plastic pins to locate the stock. The only straight spacer has a bunch of lift to it, and I would prefer a more neutral stock fit. I can easily fit my huge thumb in there with zero change of it biting me. Edited May 15, 2015 by Cyclic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstuart34 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well, got my Stoeger built today. I went with the 24" model, TTI lifter, Carbon Arms M3K tube, and did the load port job myself. I also cut a round channel into the trigger guard to funnel the loads better. I decided to skip the bolt release as I'm a lefty. Figured I'd post a pic of the milling with a little engraving for spice. I'm seriously thinking of dumping the stock spacers and simply using two plastic pins to locate the stock. The only straight spacer has a bunch of lift to it, and I would prefer a more neutral stock fit. I can easily fit my huge thumb in there with zero change of it biting me.Where did you yours um serial number go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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