racesnake Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Got a question: would lightening the bolt carrier make the m3k more dependable when using lighter loads? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Lighter carriers don't make inertia guns run lighter loads better. Lighter carriers make the gun cycle faster. Heavier carriers make the gun run lighter loads better. The other option is changing the stiffness of the inertia spring so it compresses more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racesnake Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I kinda expected that. Thanks, Jesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racesnake Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hum! Wonder if a M3500 spring is heavier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hum! Wonder if a M3500 spring is heavier? yes; you win a bunch of magnum shells in a contest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racesnake Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nope! Jesse sez a heavier bolt spring would allow you to shoot the light recoiling, 1100fps rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nope! Jesse sez a heavier bolt spring would allow you to shoot the light recoiling, 1100fps rounds. Nope! JT said bolt carriers. The same reason behind the Benelli Super Vinci having a tungsten insert in the bolt carrier. To run with lighter loads. MASS is one property in the functioning equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarpau Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Would a weaker inertia spring help with the cycling of really light loads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Oh boy, I can't wait to see where this goes! If a lighter inertia spring allows for light shells, which from what has been stated seems to be the answer, what are the tuning secrets used by the Stoger "inertia wizards". How about it Pat or Jesse? Is there a skunk works of inertia springs made in different weights waiting to be popped upon the 3000 world? This would change everything! Why hasn't anyone tried this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Oh boy, I can't wait to see where this goes! If a lighter inertia spring allows for light shells, which from what has been stated seems to be the answer, what are the tuning secrets used by the Stoger "inertia wizards". How about it Pat or Jesse? Is there a skunk works of inertia springs made in different weights waiting to be popped upon the 3000 world? This would change everything! Why hasn't anyone tried this before? No skunkworks springs that I am aware of. And kids keep in mind all the info on the Benelli inertia system has been fully disseminated within the enos forum by my friend kurtm. If anyone knows these guns better than me it is assuredly Kurt. On another note, I have tested all kinds of spring combos in the M2 and guess what???? Leave the damn thing alone and shoot it. No one and I mean no one is going to win a match in the difference between a 1oz @ 1100 and 1 1/8oz at 1200. Edited January 27, 2015 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe I am just lucky, but my M3K runs Wally World Winchester 1-1/8 3 dram loads, # 7.5 or #8 at 1200fps. I have had just a couple chugs with Fiocchi low recoil slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe I am just lucky, but my M3K runs Wally World Winchester 1-1/8 3 dram loads, # 7.5 or #8 at 1200fps. I have had just a couple chugs with Fiocchi low recoil slugs. Not lucky. That is the proper load for the gun! (within the context of our game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Oh boy, I can't wait to see where this goes! If a lighter inertia spring allows for light shells, which from what has been stated seems to be the answer, what are the tuning secrets used by the Stoger "inertia wizards". How about it Pat or Jesse? Is there a skunk works of inertia springs made in different weights waiting to be popped upon the 3000 world? This would change everything! Why hasn't anyone tried this before?No skunkworks springs that I am aware of.And kids keep in mind all the info on the Benelli inertia system has been fully disseminated within the enos forum by my friend kurtm. If anyone knows these guns better than me it is assuredly Kurt. On another note, I have tested all kinds of spring combos in the M2 and guess what???? Leave the damn thing alone and shoot it. No one and I mean no one is going to win a match in the difference between a 1oz @ 1100 and 1 1/8oz at 1200. As Pat said leave the damn thing alone and run it. The reason to run inertia guns is not soft recoil. It's reliability. I ran 1145fps AA's in mine most of last year. I had a couple not cycle and my gun won't run the 1150fps Fiocchi slugs. That told me 1150 was the very edge of my guns reliable limit. So I ran 1250-1300 fps AA's the rest of the year. the M1 Benellis I used to have had similar issues. I know the flexible M2 comfortech stock and cushy buttpad plays a role in the inertia equation too but I'm not at the trial and error level of expertise that KurtM is at to make recommendations on anything other then the weight of the carrier. Heck come to think of it the weight of all the reciprocating mass in the M3k versus the M2 is quite different. There is also a lot more friction with the action bars and the recoil spring up around the oem tube. Yikes now my head hurts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you want to run lower dram loads in the M3K, the Carbon Arms replacement magazine tube let's you do that while maintaining reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hey Mr. Kelley any idea why they went with a 24" barrel on the new 3 gun version instead of the 26"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you want to run lower dram loads in the M3K, the Carbon Arms replacement magazine tube let's you do that while maintaining reliability. Please elaborate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hey Mr. Kelley any idea why they went with a 24" barrel on the new 3 gun version instead of the 26"??? I'm no Mr. Kelley but doesn't everyone want a 21" barrel on 3-gun or tactical shotgun? That used to be the norm. 24" is the shortest they have built thus far. When in the Stoeger booth at shot shot I had about the same number ask for a 21 as a 26". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If any of you guys have ever seen Jesse shoot a shotgun, and now realize what type of shell he is running, I hope that put the light shells in perspective. You don't gain a thing, and you endanger reliability by going below about 1150 with a 1 1/8 ounce load in any inertia system. Messing with inertia springs is a sure way to failure and parts buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarpau Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Oh boy, I can't wait to see where this goes! If a lighter inertia spring allows for light shells, which from what has been stated seems to be the answer, what are the tuning secrets used by the Stoger "inertia wizards". How about it Pat or Jesse? Is there a skunk works of inertia springs made in different weights waiting to be popped upon the 3000 world? This would change everything! Why hasn't anyone tried this before? My intent was that it would result in a brief conversation about inertia systems, seeing as the topic was brought up and it looked like there were willing participants to the conversation. Obviously I was foolish. I was hoping to find out the differences (if any) between the 3000 and 3500 springs (inertia and recoil) from someone who may have some first hand knowledge. Have a 3500 that I want to mess around with for fun. I like to learn. My M2 cycles anything I put through it and I have no reason to change platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Oh boy, I can't wait to see where this goes! If a lighter inertia spring allows for light shells, which from what has been stated seems to be the answer, what are the tuning secrets used by the Stoger "inertia wizards". How about it Pat or Jesse? Is there a skunk works of inertia springs made in different weights waiting to be popped upon the 3000 world? This would change everything! Why hasn't anyone tried this before? My intent was that it would result in a brief conversation about inertia systems, seeing as the topic was brought up and it looked like there were willing participants to the conversation. Obviously I was foolish. I was hoping to find out the differences (if any) between the 3000 and 3500 springs (inertia and recoil) from someone who may have some first hand knowledge. Have a 3500 that I want to mess around with for fun. I like to learn. My M2 cycles anything I put through it and I have no reason to change platforms. I wish I had the time to experiment and learn it better. The inertia system would have made a great real world problem in engineering school. My luck I would have skipped that day with a hangover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you want to run lower dram loads in the M3K, the Carbon Arms replacement magazine tube let's you do that while maintaining reliability. Please elaborate... During our testing of the M3000, all new parts, we got reliability issues shooting anything less than 3 Dram loads. When we switched out the tube to the Carbon Arms tube, we did not have any reliability issues with the 2.5 dram loads. I could make the 2 1/4 dram loads run by altering my hold. Not recommending running low recoil loads, but they are possible with our tube while not messing with the springs and bolts. You can actually feel a change (improvement) in how the M3000 cycles as well. You will be able to see for yourself by the end of the week Jesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I was hoping to find out the differences (if any) between the 3000 and 3500 springs (inertia and recoil) from someone who may have some first hand knowledge. Have a 3500 that I want to mess around with for fun. I like to learn. My M2 cycles anything I put through it and I have no reason to change platforms. James played with the SBE (3.5" big brother to the M2) a little and I have played with the M3500. Under match conditions, I would recommend using at least 3.25 dram loads. The 1 1/8 1235 Sporting Clays loads ran like a dream. We got some issues with the 3.0 dram loads under some conditions. Not near enough data for me to make anything other than a load suggestion in the stock M3500 configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarpau Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Isn't that contrary to how the inertia system works? Doesn't adding more weight to the gun decrease reliability with lighter loads? Your tube is a one piece steel tube with an added sleeve over top correct? Just when you thought you kind of understood the working of the system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarpau Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I was hoping to find out the differences (if any) between the 3000 and 3500 springs (inertia and recoil) from someone who may have some first hand knowledge. Have a 3500 that I want to mess around with for fun. I like to learn. My M2 cycles anything I put through it and I have no reason to change platforms. James played with the SBE (3.5" big brother to the M2) a little and I have played with the M3500. Under match conditions, I would recommend using at least 3.25 dram loads. The 1 1/8 1235 Sporting Clays loads ran like a dream. We got some issues with the 3.0 dram loads under some conditions. Not near enough data for me to make anything other than a load suggestion in the stock M3500 configuration. Appreciate the info. Seeing as the nearest warm weather is a 15 hour drive south, winter months are for "R&D"!!! Edit for follow up question, If a 3500 was going to be used strictly for 3gun games, would swapping 3000 springs into it bring it into m3000 specs? This is the reason I was starting to ask about inertia springs earlier. I'm curious to see if you can get m3000 functionality out of a m3500 and gain a 3.5" loading port in the process. Edited January 27, 2015 by sarpau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Inertia is the moment that the more massive bolt carier stays stationary and the bolt compresses the inertia spring. Which then cycles the action. the more mass a bolt has the more it can compress the inertia spring. At least thag is my understandung which could be wrong as well but that is how I understood it after watching the benelli video catalog a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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