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Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?

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10 minutes ago, mark97se said:

My first guess is that they might need to go back for repair. That is not a common issue. If there is a shell in the chamber, the hammer should be cocked and it should drop when you pull the trigger. When this issues happens, you need to look in the bolt handle slot and see if the hammer is dropped already...sounds like the hammer is following the bolt home. More common would be the action not going fully into battery and when you drop the hammer, it hits the back of the firing pin, but doesn't go off...but you don't seem to be describing that.

Makes sense. I'll let him know to pay attention to it. I didn't even think to look at the hammer this morning. Besides sending it back in, is there something that can be done with simple factory parts swap?

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11 minutes ago, 021411 said:

Makes sense. I'll let him know to pay attention to it. I didn't even think to look at the hammer this morning. Besides sending it back in, is there something that can be done with simple factory parts swap?

It is *possible* that the disconnector and/or the hammer is out of spec, but that would just be a guess at this point. Definitely need to check things out more before the cause can be narrowed down.

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Mine had a hammer that would hang on a disconnector burr.  After examining the phenomenon with trigger assembly in my hands, then clearancing where it was rubbing, it never happened again.  I was only able to make it do that when working by hand but a slightly greater interference is all it would take.

 

I may have posted photos at some point but this thread is now impossibly long so may take some ready.  Maybe search by my user name in this thread.  

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My M3K has been fortunate enough to run 100% out of the box. With that said I recently replaced everything I could replace with Benelli parts and MOA parts. The main thing was the heavy bolt carrier setup from MOA. It cycled 1145’s no problems. Tried 980’s for grins and nope. 

Took the M3K out again today and continued to run like a top with 1180 2.75 dram shells. It’s not my primary shotgun but it’s good to know I can depend on it. 

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Hello all, I have m3k from some time. Today I noticed that pin in bolt Carrier is completly loose. I saw on many movies on YouTube that a hammer and punch is needed to take it out or put in back. My pin came out with hand shaking, and I can insert with one finger. Is is normal? (sorry for language, English is not my native language)fBWvy4q_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

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Mine is not particularly tight either, requires gently finger pressure to remove. Doesn't seem to cause any problems.

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On 5/3/2019 at 3:41 PM, 021411 said:

First  I apologize for not reading all 130+ pages..

 

I took two M3K's out this morning to pattern and I noticed my friend's shotgun was having very random dead triggers. Wasn't a click but rather felt like it never re-cocked and couldn't press on the trigger. I'm guessing the bolt short stroked? I consider his M3K broken in as it has been to a multiple range sessions and matches already. His shotgun also has MOA's reduced recoil spring and can cycle 1145 FPS and faster shells just fine. I spoke to him and he said he also experienced the dead trigger in matches.

Ammo issue or is there something else?

My M3000 has developed this problem also. It has a Benelli extractor, Nordic tube extension and I replaced the recoil spring.

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=351150

 

I have a call into MOA Precision but I understand they are very busy and not taking calls.

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The "dead" trigger is not so much an issue with not cycling but an issue with the bolt not going fully into battery, and the hammer fall just drives all the way into battery not does not set off the primer.  As far as I can tell this is an issue with the out of round shells and the energy behind the bolt to drive them into battery. For me, this is solved running 3dram loads and specifically NOT Federal or other 6 star crimp shells which are often slightly not round, specially for cheap shells. I find that running 3dram GunClub ammo has completely made this go away for me.

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10.4 thanks

 

I'm going to try the MOA Precision bolt kit and heavier loads together.

 

Thanks for the reply and the ammo suggestion. It's just weird to me that it ran crap ammo reliably for over a year, and now this 

 

The shotgun portion of 3gun is challenging enough for me. I don't need malfunctions too.

Edited by chauncey

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Ran a match yesterday with some hotter ammo (1300 fps and up) and had 1 failure in probably 50-60 rounds (and early in the match).

 

My MOA Precision order just shipped.

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I bought an M3K "Freedom Series" last week and ran it at a 3GN match this past Sunday. No problems whatsoever with Winchester Super X 7.5 (1255fps?) and a few Centurion 2.75" slugs. Will probably send it in for MOA upgrades if I do more matches, but out of the box, it was pretty impressive. Didn't feel undergunned in the slightest, didn't have any complaints about the control sizes, and it pointed surprisingly well for how little time I had on it. Stock isn't my favorite, but that may be unfamiliarity.

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I ran a match last weekend. 4-5 failures with one 1300 fps quality shotshell, in the 1st stage.

 

Switched to a different load then 1 failure per stage in each of the next 3 stages.

 

I did some more polishing on the extractor and barrel groove, then installed this:

https://moaprecisionllc.com/product/moa-precision-heavy-bolt-system/

 

I ran 50 rounds of junk Winchester 7-1/2's, and 10 rounds of the hotter ammo that FTF'd last weekend.

 

So far, so good, no failures.

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Those still running a Stoeger, who are you using for gunsmithing and parts?  MOA never has what I want listed as in stock, and they never respond to emails.  My MOA built M3000 needs some help; it's not reliable, even with WinAA 1250s.  Same slugs it used to run all the time, Aero 7/8oz 1300fps, don't properly cycle any more.  Thinking it's time to replace every spring in the gun as a starting point.

Edited by mahamoti

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3 hours ago, mahamoti said:

Those still running a Stoeger, who are you using for gunsmithing and parts?  MOA never has what I want listed as in stock, and they never respond to emails.  My MOA built M3000 needs some help; it's not reliable, even with WinAA 1250s.  Same slugs it used to run all the time, Aero 7/8oz 1300fps, don't properly cycle any more.  Thinking it's time to replace every spring in the gun as a starting point.

Call them. When I was looking for parts for my franchi I called them and they picked right up and helped me with a few questions I had and literally packed up the box as I was on the phone with them.

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I bought the light load kit (spring and carrier) from them and it solved my reliability problems.

 

When I called there was a terse message along the lines that they were building guns not returning calls.

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On 11/4/2019 at 3:44 PM, mahamoti said:

Aero 7/8oz 1300fps, don't properly cycle any more

I've never been able to get those to cycle in my M3K.  I'm thinking about getting that light load kit myself.  I have pretty much everything they make on mine, and no complaints.  

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On 11/4/2019 at 3:44 PM, mahamoti said:

Those still running a Stoeger, who are you using for gunsmithing and parts?  MOA never has what I want listed as in stock, and they never respond to emails.  My MOA built M3000 needs some help; it's not reliable, even with WinAA 1250s.  Same slugs it used to run all the time, Aero 7/8oz 1300fps, don't properly cycle any more.  Thinking it's time to replace every spring in the gun as a starting point.

Have you checked that your inertia spring inside the bolt is still in one piece? What exactly do you mean by not cycling? People speak in generalities, but there are many nuances that might give clues as to what the real issue is. No matter the gun, fiocchi slugs are on the ragged edge of not functioning, so a lot to lot variation is enough to make them not work...but 1250 AAs should cycle no matter what...that is, if you are talking about 1 1/8oz 1250s... Is that correct?

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I was wondering if anyone has had issues with their action not closing all the way and causing a misfire because the bolt does not fully turn. It seems that the bolt gets stuck on the pin inside the bolt carrier when the action doesn't close hard enough, then the firing pin doesn't reach the primer because the action isn't closed fully. Any one else with that issue that may have a solution?

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2 hours ago, mikehck55 said:

I was wondering if anyone has had issues with their action not closing all the way and causing a misfire because the bolt does not fully turn. It seems that the bolt gets stuck on the pin inside the bolt carrier when the action doesn't close hard enough, then the firing pin doesn't reach the primer because the action isn't closed fully. Any one else with that issue that may have a solution?

Most of this info is all contained in this thread if you look for it. The short version is that there are several reasons that your bolt may not be going fully into battery. it is made to have a little hitch in the movement, it is an anti bounce feature. all inertia guns have bolt bounce, but if it is bad enough or if something slows the action down it can cause a malfunction. that little hitch in the movement is designed to keep a bolt from bouncing out of battery. Often times if your gun is not going fully into battery, it is either fairly new and has not been broken in, or something is slowing the action down as it is traveling forward. This can be anything from a nick on the edge of the chamber, to shotgun shells that are slightly out of round, to Grease in the action slowing down its movement, to screws projecting from a match saver and dragging on the action spring under the handguard, to a rough extractor cut in the barrel that causes drag on the extractor as the bolt locks and unlocks, to any number of things. The action should be oiled with light oil, and the only areas that should see Grease would be the bolt tailpiece and Cam pin.

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56 minutes ago, mark97se said:

Most of this info is all contained in this thread if you look for it. The short version is that there are several reasons that your bolt may not be going fully into battery. it is made to have a little hitch in the movement, it is an anti bounce feature. all inertia guns have bolt bounce, but if it is bad enough or if something slows the action down it can cause a malfunction. that little hitch in the movement is designed to keep a bolt from bouncing out of battery. Often times if your gun is not going fully into battery, it is either fairly new and has not been broken in, or something is slowing the action down as it is traveling forward. This can be anything from a nick on the edge of the chamber, to shotgun shells that are slightly out of round, to Grease in the action slowing down its movement, to screws projecting from a match saver and dragging on the action spring under the handguard, to a rough extractor cut in the barrel that causes drag on the extractor as the bolt locks and unlocks, to any number of things. The action should be oiled with light oil, and the only areas that should see Grease would be the bolt tailpiece and Cam pin.

That was an excellent answer thank you so much

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11 hours ago, mark97se said:

Have you checked that your inertia spring inside the bolt is still in one piece? What exactly do you mean by not cycling? People speak in generalities, but there are many nuances that might give clues as to what the real issue is. No matter the gun, fiocchi slugs are on the ragged edge of not functioning, so a lot to lot variation is enough to make them not work...but 1250 AAs should cycle no matter what...that is, if you are talking about 1 1/8oz 1250s... Is that correct?

I do need to check the inertia spring.  Fired hull ejects, new shell doesn't feed.  Doesn't make it all the way up into the chamber, and gets stuck between bolt and feed ramp.  Yes, this is with Win AA 1250 7.5 1 1/8.

 

As for the Aero slugs, 7/8 1300 has always run in this gun, until last month's match, where the spent hull stovepiped.  Though at this month's match, the 3 I needed cycled fine.

 

Going to try new inertia spring, new Benelli ejector and spring, new mag tube spring, and see where that gets me.  I'd try the MOA bolt carrier mod if they had welded up parts in stock.

Edited by mahamoti

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17 minutes ago, mahamoti said:

I do need to check the inertia spring.  Fired hull ejects, new shell doesn't feed.  Doesn't make it all the way up into the chamber, and gets stuck between bolt and feed ramp.  Yes, this is with Win AA 1250 7.5 1 1/8.

 

As for the Aero slugs, 7/8 1300 has always run in this gun, until last month's match, where the spent hull stovepiped.  Though at this month's match, the 3 I needed cycled fine.

 

Going to try new inertia spring, new Benelli ejector and spring, new mag tube spring, and see where that gets me.  I'd try the MOA bolt carrier mod if they had welded up parts in stock.

If the fired shell is ejecting, it shouldn't be a power issue. The slugs might be a different story. Just remember that with inertia guns, you are part of the recoil system. The tighter you hold the gun and the firmer you stand, the more likely the gun is to malfunction...it is the opposite of a gas gun...and many people will tell you to do exactly the wrong thing. We recommend the Brenneke home defense or Rio 1 1/8 oz slugs...they have a bit more power. We have had 5 people competing with stoegers for 5 years, so we have seen most of the issues, but we have rarely had issues with rounds not feeding. I would definitely make sure that the tube spring is a bit stronger, to ensure that the shell goes all the way to the rear when it is kicked out. If you can't figure it out, don't hesitate to send it back to Stoeger...their warranty shop is familiar with working on modded guns.

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